Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?

 
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:10 PM   #1
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Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


As a carpentry contractor, I have a question regarding cinder crete blocks that I can't seem to find anything technical on. I was at a job site the other day doing a quote, and a bunch of guys were assembling a two story brick dog kennel inside another building with pl premium and standard hollow cinder blocks. Construction was 8 bricks high, then a joisted wooden floor glued to the bricks, covered in 3/4" strand board, and then another 6 rows of bricks and a cap. They didn't even tooth or tie the many intersecting dividing walls of the kennels, just put them up after and glued them to the back common wall! So is the PL a recommended way of laying cinderblocks? As well, there was not any horizontal, or vertical metal reinforcement used in the construction , and I am wondering if this could really be meeting masonry building codes for the US or Canada?
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:28 PM   #2
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


It does not meet any code I have seen in the U.S., Canada or any foreign country.

It is fundamentally just like a bunch of dominoes stacked up and ready to collapse.

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Old 10-04-2017, 12:35 PM   #3
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Thanks, Dick, that is what I was thinking, but I wanted to hear it from a professional.
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:01 PM   #4
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


It is not something I would ever do for money, but I have done several projects around the house using it, including the castle I built for my daughters when they were young. Note that in every case I also stucco it, so it is in reality SBC, not "PL adhered block"
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:44 PM   #5
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Thanks Tscarborough, I wouldn't hesitate for a small project like yours, but for a 40 stall 2 story kennel with catwalks for the public and employees, I think building to code is warranted!
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:04 PM   #6
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Awfully expensive way of laying block.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:18 PM   #7
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


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Originally Posted by TimNJ View Post
Awfully expensive way of laying block.


+1

I can tell you mortar would be a heck of a lot cheaper, of course I'm a bricklayer so I'm a little biased


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Old 10-04-2017, 07:30 PM   #8
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


I would think anyone building a 40 stall 2 story kennel should be a mason as well. That sounds pretty hoopty to me. Are they filling the block or doing anything to add some kind of strength?

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Old 10-04-2017, 07:48 PM   #9
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Quote:
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Awfully expensive way of laying block.


Bag of Type S premix is like $1.50. Why the frig would someone use PL.




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Old 10-04-2017, 07:52 PM   #10
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


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Bag of Type S premix is like $1.50. Why the frig would someone use PL.









Delta


Probably cause they don't know how to lay them with mortar! Hahah


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Old 10-04-2017, 10:31 PM   #11
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


I'm paying $11.00 a bag for type s...where the hell can I pay $1.50?
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:52 AM   #12
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Quote:
Originally Posted by superseal View Post
I'm paying $11.00 a bag for type s...where the hell can I pay $1.50?
60 lb Premix. Not Masonry Cement.




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Old 10-05-2017, 01:58 PM   #13
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylHanger View Post
I would think anyone building a 40 stall 2 story kennel should be a mason as well. That sounds pretty hoopty to me. Are they filling the block or doing anything to add some kind of strength?
No, the design is entirely reliant on glue. And yeah, no masons, as any I know would refuse to do something like this. The foreman/designer seemed quite confident about his process, needless to say I won't be working for that fellow!

Last edited by Doug1987; 10-05-2017 at 02:06 PM. Reason: forgot quote
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:02 PM   #14
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


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Probably cause they don't know how to lay them with mortar! Hahah
I would say that is correct, one of the PL "masons" is a journeyman carpenter I used to know from a job a ways back.
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:37 PM   #15
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


On dry clean CMUs the PL might have nearly 300 PSI of tensile strength, and over 450 PSI shear strength. Which is several times the # used for designing Masonry with regular Masonry cement or even the much stickier PCL mortars....

The greatest threat to the doggie Condo is of course the long degradation of the Adhesive and CMUs from exposure to the Pet Urine.

Some church bell towers have failed early due the lack of provision for a Water closet for the bell ringers, decades and centuries of piss washing away the bonding lime from the tower's mortar.

I would think any one who has demoed anything that is thoroughly glued together with a quality adhesive would hesitate to say the structure is unsafe.
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:46 PM   #16
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Did I read it right the corners wernt tied togther?
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:00 PM   #17
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


I can't discern whether or not an existing CMU/masonry wall was used as a Party wall.... But can't imagine a stack bond staying intact during the construction glue setting phase......

This would be a great experiment for a con Eng. lab class to time lapse photograph the aging of the Doggie Condo in place.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:09 PM   #18
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Only the two outside corners of a 50 foot long wall are toothed, but all the 8 or 9 interior intersecting walls are not, just glued against the long wall. Very odd method, and the brick looks dry stacked as the glue just oozed out and the workers wiped it off so there is no visible joint width. Im sure they're bonded for now.....
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:31 PM   #19
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Here is the issue with PL as an adhesive: First, you have the same issue as when doing SBC, i.e. CMU are not perfectly sized. The 3/8" mortar joint is 3/8" to allow for the tolerance in CMU. Every time I sold a SBC job (mainly in the early nineties when the cement industry was promoting it) I always had the same complaint, "we can't get the wall level and square". No ****, Sherlock, you are drystacking them 12' high and 100' long. You are not working with the tolerance of the units.

Second, again from personal experience, you get "creep" when using adhesives. The wall will move over the years depending upon the forces on it. for freestanding walls this is not much of an issue, but for example, a retaning wall built using PL will not work.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:00 PM   #20
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Re: Gluing Cinderblock Walls With PL Premium?


Doug 1987 : Running bond= One on top of two, vs stack bond is one on top of one...... half blocks needed for running bond jambs.....

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