Getting Locked Into Low Prices

creteking79

Hi everyone,I own a relatively new construction company in N.W. Oregon and it is a little slow this time of year.I just recently started doing the faux stone applications on the houses that are being built in one of the larger subdivisions in my area.I quoted him a price of $8 a sq.ft. and have done two so far.My problem is that I have had a number of other contractors say that the average guy doing this sort of work in my area is getting arround $16 a sq.ft. To me that # sounds pretty high.I know that truth usually lies somewhere in the middle on most things.If they can get that then that is great,I just don't want to get known as a low baller in any sort of way ,nor do I want to get the short end of the stick financially.This is a housing devolpment that should run about ten years to estimated end and is a fairly good opportunity.Should I chance my part in it by trying to renegotiate my price or do you guys think my labor price is fair?$8 includes installation of lath,scratch coat,stone and final grouting.(sq.ft. ranging 100-200)

Vinny

At a first impression it sounds low but no one here can tell you what the cost basis in your area is. Its completely different for any one any where. So dont get your hopes up in getting an absolute answer here.

But I'm not sure I understand. Is this a purely labor price or a labor and material complete price?

Before you answer that though, give this a little thought.

It doesnt matter if your the low guy or the high guy. The only thing that matters is are you able to make money there. I mean typicaly the work you do for developers and GCs is something you complete now and get paid for 3 months from now. So are you making enough to make it worth your while? Have you done any job costing yet on that site? Does the margin fit your needs. Or will this be an anchor job to cover bills while you have a couple more crews making the profit somewhere? Do you have a price ladder built into a contract that long? Surely your costs will go up over time.

I didnt mean to sound condesending and I know those seem like basic questions anyone in buisness should be able to answer. But I find few buisness owners, especialy begining contractors, know those answers.

Having a job like that can be good in slow times but it can also break you very quickly.

Just trying to help

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6stringmason

Sounds a bit low to me too, but thats from someone in Wisconsin. Im charging $12 to start, which includes everything you're doing.

Stacker will probably tell ya somethind different. Just depends where you're from.

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stacker

sounds high to me,but what the hell im getting 2.50 a foot for labor.
now im not going to sit here and tell you that if others in my area were getting 5.00,6.00 or more that i wouldnt be getting that.the fact is whatever your market will pay is what you charge.i have one mason in my area charging 800.00 per thousand on brick,and he buys sand and cement.that puts him at about 700.00.the house i am currently doing,i am doing for 500.00.the last one i did for 650.00.i wont do anything for under 500.00 anymore.
so to sum it up,if others are getting it and you can too then charge what you want.

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Tscarborough

About what I get for labor only, if I were to do labor only, which I won't.

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Tommy C

Creteking,

It is amazing how much our prices differ around the country. For a front veneer, I wouldn't get any less than $30 per sf.

Then again, where I am, you cannot buy a decent home for less than $400,000. Most of you guys would get a MANSION for 400k. Up here it would get you a ranch that needs a lot of work. The difference in markets is amazing.

Back to the point....creteking, if you can make money after your materials cost and overhead costs...then god bless america and charge $8 a square foot!

creteking79

thank you for all your replies,I also think it is amazing how our prices differ from arround the country. I make enough at $8 (labor only) to make it worth my while ,after all as I mentioned that I am a fairly new company and building a reputation for quallity work is important to me and these help to lend a visual representation of that but I feel that if I am to keep pace with the rest of the project and trades then I need to up my cost slightly to pay for additional labor and burden.I know to most of us that is a fairly logical concept but to a developer......who knows.I guess we'll see.

raisethelinepig

Tommy C u just to side work or do you run your own masonry outfit?

reveivl

I ain't a mason, but this isn't a masonry ?

If you are making wages, covering overhead and making the profit on it that you want, then you're fine, if not, renegotiate or walk. Why lose money for ten years?

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Tommy C

Raisethelinepig, I run my own masonry business. My point is that, where I am, even the real cheapo guys are getting at least $22 per s.f. I find that it's hard for people in other parts of the country to fathom just how high the cost of living is in NJ! Vinny can attest to that, he's from CT, where cost of living is very similar.

creteking79

I guess I am living in the wrong state.I just got under bid on my sq.ft price by a guy who looks like he lives in a van and said he would do the stone and throw in the lap siding as a 2 for 1 deal on the next home being built in the sub division(roughly 2500 sqft.) ,both for $800.00 .how in the world are we supposed to compete in a market where there are so many low ballers out there.I had another job lined up for 1500 sqft tile.18"x18" ceramic on the floors and 3 showers with mud pans.I wanted/needed the job so I told them I would do it labor only for $5 a sqft. pretty damn low for anyone and I lost it to a guy who said he would do it for 3.00 labor only!!! is that nuts or what?

stacker

were they mexican?

i have lost more work in the last year to mexicans,legal or not,than i ever have,and i live in nowhere oklahoma.they are laying brick for 320.00 a thousand.8 in block for 1.00 and tile for 2 bucks a foot.i have a customer who i have done all their work,around 25 grand worth over the last 5 years.they hired a group of mexicans to do their fireplace and didnt even have the balls to tell me.
after i fell last month i told my brother in law to get someone else to lay his spec house.he hired a mexican crew,and now wants me to lay brick for 320 a thousand.i told him to his my fat azz.
i am considering hiring this crew on my next house and pay them the 320,but charge the customer 650.00 and sit back and watch.

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life is short,do your masonry naked!!
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6stringmason

Now were talking business.

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920-680-3195
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creteking79

they were Mexican,yes.I guess it's a thing that has become a problem where ever you are.I have seen a huge problem in my home city with low ballers coming down clear from Portland wich is like 300 miles away from me to stay in a cheap motel or camp out and just throw low #s at anyone they can get ahold of and then they move on like locusts to the next crop.

stacker

i hear you,the mexican crews coming in here are coming from okc,which is 150 miles.

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life is short,do your masonry naked!!
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NWBuilder

16 bucks a foot is about what I budget for supply all materials and install. Since you are not supplying the stone you are right were you need to be. Are you going broke doing it for 8 dollars a square? If you are really at half price you would be.