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What is the most frequent cause of Wood Door water Damage

Front Door water damage

26K views 121 replies 24 participants last post by  B_Boop 
#1 ·
My client finished a renovation 2 years ago. A new front door was installed. The door is now damaged and rotted along the vertical supports on both sides of the door and sidelights. The lintel above the door was never painted and is rusted. Also, a contractor informed her about a "notch" which is supposed to be there to prevent the water from traveling back into the wall behind the brick. I see no notch. Someone else mentioned "weep holes" for her brick,...which I also do not see. She and I live in NYC.
She states she has had a myriad of contractors through there looking at the situation....many of whom are not sure what course of action needs to be taken.
Can anyone direct me on how to best assist my client?...And, how to find a knowledgeable craftsman to correct her problem?
 
#3 ·
Ok...Hi My name is Betty and I am a NYC (surburb) interior decorator.

I have been contracted by my client to assist in her decorating after a very traumatic renovation.
The repair problems seem to be overwhelming her more than the daunting task of decorating 4000 s/f of living space.
Can anyone help me assist her into clarifying the possible alternatives causing the problem above, and how to find a qualified skills-man ...and to be able to recognize the difference? ->
~
 
#4 ·
Tell your client to hire a contractor, as an interior decorator you are obviously not qualified to assess the problem or to rectify it. As an interior decorator surely you have some contractors you work with on a regular basis don't you? Recommend them to your client. By doing this you are helping your client out and building a better relationship with the contractors you regularly work with.
 
#5 ·
Hello Betty,
It is possible you will not get much response here because we tend to eat home owners alive. I will gently suggest you post your question in the DIY section and also encourage you contact a professional mason to look at the problem.

If you dont know a good mason, try a local masonry supply store, they should direct you towards a good mason. Forget about the big box stores, they are probably the source of the water penetration in the first place.

Good luck with your decorationg.
 
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#6 ·
She has hired 5 different contractors with many unsuccessful suggestions. I have interior contractors who do work for me. Yes. But none with this field of expertise. I do have some contracting knowledge, and while not able to understand this particular issue, as leaks are difficult for any contractor, I am still able to refer her or add to her and my knowledge base, so she will not get "hosed" any further. She is a single mom who could use all the guidance our resources have to offer. Please do not minimize my attempt to assist her.
Solutions go much farther than negativeness. Thanks.
 
#8 ·
After careful consideration of your question...I have decided.....um...no, it would not be rude.
Let me explain. I often am asked for opinion on problem areas, and how I would recommend handling certain issues. I spend many hours giving these opinions, and believe this helps me secure the contract. You see, how I handle these problems, or concerns of a client or potential client, enables them to gain a certain amount of comfort and security with my manner and the way I will handle them and their desires.
So, no. I believe how I extend myself to a potential client.....gets me my contracts.....even before they sign on the dotted line...and it speaks to my desire to service them all through the job.
If you consider my question rude, I am sorry. I believed from one contractor to another, that your answer would assist me in better being able to guide my client. And, while it really would not benefit you directly.....why would you answer me any differently than any other contractor on this site?
 
#36 ·
Shave the rug, problem solved.:blink:


Next.
 
#12 ·
Perhaps rephrasing the original question something like. I am a decorator in the nyc area. I have a client whose front door is rotting. She has had several people out to look but no one can tell her what is wrong. Can anyone here in that area pm me to look at her problem?

By the way the best answer to the survey was omitted All of the above
 
#14 ·
I'm easy going. Post up some detailed pics and I'll give you my best guess. To answer your poll, it could be all of them...or non of them.
How detailed was the artichokes section?
Who installed the door?
I would say the mason would be last on the list because he is just supplying a rough opening in most cases.
Was this a retrofit into existing masonry?

There's no way you can get a real cost of repair without much more investigation.
 
#15 ·
LOL...very funny guys.
The question was really how to differentiate from one contractors suggestions and qualifications to an other's. All their responses seem plausible. And I am sure if she hired each of them....her problem would still not be fixed.
I only wanted to help her sort through the possible solutions, without her spending a fortune. Her last fellow told her he'd find the leak.....time and materials. I know how costly that could get.
And...If I did pose the question.....anyone in the NY area want to assist,...I am not too sure, from the "beer guy" answered, she'd end up with that great a pool of potential assists.
Too bad you other fellows are not from NY.......as you seem helpful enough and maybe knowledgeable enough to attempt such a complicated water problem.
Maybe I am not winning the bread doing the manual stuff any longer, but I did build decks, lay tile and hang wall paper for a living in my early days.

Yes, I never replaced a door. So I have no clue about the flashing....but it appears to be a one piece door, made of wood, I did not see flashing... only some putty in the seams between the finished wood and the brick morter.
Thank you all for your nice condescending words. I will apply to ballet school shortly.....so, I too can be a ballerina.....instead of the multifaceted businesswoman I have become......Dumb ole' me!
 
#19 ·
Thank you all for your nice condescending words. I will apply to ballet school shortly.....so, I too can be a ballerina.....instead of the multifaceted businesswoman I have become......Dumb ole' me!
Don't sell the Ballerina short, I have a very close friend who danced for several ballet companies before, during and after graduating from Julliard, toured Italy, was on staff at UNLV, danced in a production at Bally's and taught at the Cincinnatti Ballet. She now is co-owner of her mothers dance studio and is the artistic director of a nationally ranked regional dance company which her Grandmother founded. She is also a multifacetted business woman who happens to be a single mother of two.
That doesn't make her a contractor.
BTW, nobody on this planet will be able to troubleshoot a leak like you have described sight unseen, nor would they be able to guarantee to find the leak. It may be that the door jambs are wicking moisture from the doorsill when it rains and there is no leak at all. If you post some pictures of the wall, the area affected by rot, any roofs, windows or other structures adjacent to the door we may be able to offer up some professional opinions.
 
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#16 ·
Cjkarl

Thanks CJK. I have an appointment there this Friday. I will bring my camera.
Are we allowed to post on this site?
And, do you know anyone in the NYC area who may do this kind of work who u can refer?
Would it be easier for me to just e-mail them to you?
Or do u check this forum often?
 
#17 ·
If anyone wanted to help,
they couldn't without any details.
Your question is too vague.
If any local guys were interested
in looking at it, you haven't added
your e-mail to your contact info so
how could they?
There has already been this parade
of guys who actually saw the thing
and couldn't figure it out, but you
expect to come here and get an answer
in 2 or 3 hours?
 
#18 ·
OGStilts: Thank you for being nice and answering me the way you did. I have now moved to smaller, less time consuming jobs...yes, drapes, windows carpet and furniture. And, prefer to be called in after the contractors are gone. I have not worked with builders in the last 10 years. The milled work, I sub out. I have my own sheet rock and installers. At this point in my career....I am not interested in pressure.
I guess maybe I've internalized this particular womans problem. If it were mine, having spent all the money she did for her renovation, I wouldn't be sleeping at night! Thanks for your kind words......however, I suspect she is not going to resolve this matter any time in the near future....It's going on 2 years already.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Hahaha, I've never danced a day in my life, but I'll say this. To become a professional ballet dancer, it takes a level of commitment and a love for the art unlike most people are capable of. I won't lie and say that I enjoy the ballet, but after being behind the scenes as a stagehand, I have learned to appreciate the amount of work that goes into a production.:thumbsup:

I'll be watching for your pics of the door and will be happy to offer my opinions, but masonry walls can be tricky. If the brick is porous, it may need to be sealed.
 
#23 ·
OK Fellows.....I am sure this will not help, but maybe

it will help us get some direction! What have the great minds to say on these....I will post in threes...the 9 pics I was able to get in between the rain.
Thanks...for any thoughts u may have....and those you are too polite to share! LOL
Boop
 

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#26 ·
and finally- pics 7, 8, and 9

Now, I am not sure what, if anything you will see, other than a door that is causing too much heartache for the price she paid for her renovation.....but, all thoughts on the matter will be helpful. Even, if only to rei8nforce something another contractors may have said to her prior.
You fellows, in this asylum.....do seem pretty solid....
It almost makes me want to become a mason or something....just to fit in better.:thumbup:
Maybe I will be able to return the favor, someday......when u have difficulty picking between burnt umber and taupe!:laughing:
 

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#27 ·
In looking at it closer...today....it seems as if the wood is rotting from the front backwards....so this seems plausable.....I guess when the door gets pulled out she'll be able to see what damage is behind....maybe then....whomever she gets...can decide.
What do u know of the lintel issue....see the rust...does it need a notch?
 
#29 ·
As far as the piece of angle iron goes. It should have been painted prior to installation. To fix it sand it down and paint it. There should be no notch in it. That will only weaken the lintel. I can not see any weep holes above the door so I am guessing that there is not flashing installed above the door. No good. Are there weep holes in the brick work right above the grade height on the rest of the house? Since you are dealing with a real wood door it might be a good idea to have some type of membrane between the door jambs and the brick work. Wood tends to wick moisture from masonry.
If I had to guess solely from the pics, water maybe leaking into the wall above the door somewhere and running down and laying behind the brick at the bottom of the door. Are there any signs of water damage inside by the door? Leaks are a tough thing to guess about with out digging into the wall.
 
#31 ·
Have a mason come out and give you an estimate on what it would be to remove some of the brick on the lintel over the door. He could tell you right away if thats where the water is coming from.

It should have been flashed and weeped, but it wasnt. Not to say thats whats rotting the door for sure, but its as good as place as any to start. While hes up there, you may as well have him take them all off, plus a few courses above, flash it and weep it right away.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Boop, we need a few more pictures to put this puppy to rest.

Please post a full height picture of the front of the house. All the ones you have posted were taken too close to the home to see the roof line and all the eaves on the front of the home.

Please take a close up of the lentil and the bricks over the door that includes about 4 courses (rows) of brick. This picture should be full width of the door and side lights.

Please take a close up of the area over the window above the doorway that includes about 4 courses of brick. This photo should be full width of the window.

I suspect that you're dealing with several issues here, not the least of which seems to be absolutely horrid design. (Brown, brass and antique brass... So 80's honey. How do the neighbors stand it?)

I see what seems to be mold growing on the brick going up several courses (rows) from the ground. It all seems to be growing in the areas that splash water from the eaves would hit.

By the way, weep holes are spaces between bricks that are left without mortar on purpose so that any water that has gotten behind the brick can run out. This prevents the water from soaking into things, or at least, that's the theory. Very important detail.
 
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#33 ·
From what is apparent from the pics, it looks like much of the problem is exposure of the door and wicking from the bottom up. The paint at the top of unit appears to have remained fairly intact with no blistering or peeling. I'm curious if water has ever been seen leaking from the top jamb of the unit. The sill of the door should have had an extension to bring it out past the brickface. Water will lay on the brick and possibly even blow or run under the unit. Often but not always, if the leak is above the unit, it will show somewhere at the top of unit. Take an ice pick and push it into the wood near the corners of the head jamb and also in 6 inch increments along head. If water has been infiltrating from above, you should find some soft wood or rot. The window above is also cause for concern, it should be examined occasionally as routine maintanance.

Boop, does the door have a southern exposure? That can be especially hard on this type of door without any protection from the elements.

:thumbsup:
 
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#34 ·
Here is a link to what it should look like behind the brick.

http://www.maconline.org/tech/design/tying1/tying2/tying2.html

I agree with loneframer, I think the wood is just rotting from exposure. most likely not a southern exposure as moss is usually not very prolific in the sun.

Move the flower pots away from the wall a little and let the brick dry out once in a while. Sometimes the gardener/HO gets sloppy with the hose. Might be the water source right there. :thumbsup:
 
#35 ·
I agree that a lot of the damage appears to be from water wicking in from the outside and bottom of the door ,However I will be surprised if there is flashing above the door,( due to lack of weepholes). You might have to take all the brick off to the window above ,water can be coming in thru the window sill and droping straight down . Good luck
 
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