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What is the most frequent cause of Wood Door water Damage

Front Door water damage

26K views 121 replies 24 participants last post by  B_Boop 
#1 ·
My client finished a renovation 2 years ago. A new front door was installed. The door is now damaged and rotted along the vertical supports on both sides of the door and sidelights. The lintel above the door was never painted and is rusted. Also, a contractor informed her about a "notch" which is supposed to be there to prevent the water from traveling back into the wall behind the brick. I see no notch. Someone else mentioned "weep holes" for her brick,...which I also do not see. She and I live in NYC.
She states she has had a myriad of contractors through there looking at the situation....many of whom are not sure what course of action needs to be taken.
Can anyone direct me on how to best assist my client?...And, how to find a knowledgeable craftsman to correct her problem?
 
#37 ·
Take a level and check which way the porch is sloping. I can imagine if the slope is going towards the door all the water would saturate the bricks quite quickly. You likely wouldnt even see a puddle unlike a concrete porch which doesnt absorb water as quickly as the clay. The water could wick up the bricks and into the wood.
Even so, it could easily be a flashing problem involving the lintel, if the masons were in to much of a hurry to get a painted angle iron maybe they were in to much of a hurry to put flashing material (poly) behind the tar paper and over the angle.. water would run straight down the tar paper onto the top of the door jamb.

I would check and fix both problems, if the doors rotting I can imagine there being even more unseen damage.
 
#38 ·
if the lintle is screwed to studs/header and house wrap is over lintel and taped this should have eliminated water from above. The storm door is unvented and the door is a dark color which can cause a heat build up of +/- 180degrees which will cause warping and other damage not to mention void warranty on most doors. If this door faces south or west it only adds to the problem. There also appears to be severe wicking up from the bottom of door causing additional decay. The trim appears to be 1by material that is not wrapped, could have been wrapped with aluminum, or polystyrene brick mold used. The next question is are the side lights a one piece molded unit or are the stops for the glazing separate. If the stops for the glazing are added the heat will cause these to move which will allow water infiltration. hope this is some help for you.
 
#40 ·
Mr NJ Brickie....if that is even a possibility...then, when she orders a replacement door.....would you suggest replacing with other than wood...so, if the leak is not found or after all the investigative work is done and maybe not resolved....at least the door will not rot out....
Someplace else, maybe...but not the door?
 
#42 ·
Ok Mr. 6string.....very useful info...and probably just what she really needs to do.
Now back to the original question....
Most masons I work with do jobs from beginning to end. It is difficult to find one, who really has skills, willing to do repair work of that nature.
I have a mason I use regularly, whom I actually asked for a favor. He may be able to get to it in September or October, when he slows down.
How can she /we get someone of quality to take this job, and be sure he will not stick her worse than the original contractor did?
 
#43 ·
Mr. Double A.....As I read each of the comments, my heart is sinking. I fear I cannot begin to bring this news to my homeowner.
I will call her and make time to see her on Monday.....I guess I will walk in with a "please don't shoot the messenger" T-shirt on.......but with these comments in hand, maybe we can begin to address the issues.
I am most thankful you fellows assisted me in trying to support a very distraught client.
 
#44 ·
kimosabi,
Cannot be sure of exposure right now....will re-check and get back with you.
I did call her regarding your question about leaking from the top.
She said the door does leak through the top wood of the door.....right between the storm and wood doors. Like it is raining between the 2 doors.. But she said, there's no blistering on that jamb or rotting, despite the water dripping down from there.....???
 
#50 ·
If it is leaking from the top, I would surmise that the window is the main culprit. Water is gaining access at that point and entering the space between the wall and the brick veneer. It is still possible for other problems to exist, but if it's "raining" between the doors, look up. It is likely that the window will need to be removed as well as the brick between the window and the door to properly address the problem. Not a budget minded solution by any means. I still see issues with the door sill area. With the door units we use, there is a continuous sill available that runs under the door and sidelights with no wood touching the subfloor, or brick veneer in your case. They also have a sill extender that interlocks with the standard sill to force the water away from the veneer. Some doors are available with a composite several inches up on the door jambs to prevent wicking into that area.
I'd like to see a pic taken from a distance that will show the entire wall, including the roofline above the door.
The reason I asked about the exposure of the door is because of the glass storm door. Someone else touched on the point that is usually overlooked and that is the temperature that builds between the doors. That is compounded by the darker color.
 
#45 ·
Ok Mr. Dakzaag...the brick (planters) flower pots are attached to the house. They are elevated about 4 feet of the ground.
This means the door elevation is also about 4", or more.
There is also a brick course ...to step up which means the door does not sit directly on the ground.
There are no weep holes anywhere except for 2 or 3 she had placed bu a former mason examining the problem. So, 3 weep holes were placed in the brick above the door as his solution to the whole problem.
 
#51 ·
the door was delivered as one piece however it is actually 4 main pcs assembled and delievered, the frame (jambs), the sidelites (2-each) and the door. The door and side lites assemble in jamb. The area i am refering to are the stops that hold the glass in the sidelites, if this is molded with the sidelite or attached to sidelite prior to installation of glass. This door appears to be a fiberclassic but more than 2 years old, it may have been painted two years ago. Just a side note the damaged door may not be your only problem, you may want to check in the basement and see what the box sill looks like under the door area.
 
#47 ·
Guys,
I thank you for allowing me to enter the asylum. And, for taking the time to review a seemingly serious problem......more than I'd hoped it would be.
Mr. ScipioAfricanus ...great picture!
I will be in touch as I am able to get the additional information. I expect to tell her to wait on all the input before she/we attempt to decipher a course of action.
You guys seem to have a good handle on the issue.....and I expect with the additional pictures and advice, she will have a good idea on where to begin.
I now feel a bit more competent to assist her in, at least, discussing the options with whomever she chooses as a mason....
It appears, she has a big job ahead of her. Who the hell were her architect and mason????? They should be boiled in oil.......GRRRRR. Burns me to see people taken advantage of that way.
Y'all have a really great Father's Day......K?
 
#52 ·
Um,..not sure u r correct mr. Darwin, as I started the thread with a question posed to anyone who could or would be nice enough to assist.
The hijacking to which u refer, is nothing more than further questioning to each of the king fellows who took time to have their input.
Did I do something wrong?...If so, please explain, and I will refrain. I know how sensitive toes can be.
 
#54 ·
It might be a bit tidier
when replying to multiple posts
if you use the multi-quote function,
then use the quote function,
for the last.
You can then insert your response
between each quote. :thumbsup:
 
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#53 ·
thanks, Loneframer.....My daughter and son-in-law live in Deptford.....and we're headed there today...for the weekend.
Too bad all the good ones are so far away.....LOL
OOPS...that would imply, you would (or he would) ever consider doing such a complicated job.
Still, no one has shared with me how to encourage someone to take a job such as this.
 
#55 ·
Still, no one has shared with me how to encourage someone to take a job such as this.
Unfortunately, most guys will be sceptical of opening this "can of worms" for fear of loosing their astragals. (door joke) The only way both parties can be treated fairly is a time and material basis. That would require finding an honest contractor who will not take advantage of the situation. There are many of us out here, it's unfortunate if you don't already have a repore with one.
I personally believe that there is no quick fix to your problem. It appears that the homeowner has figured this out already. Some good money has already been thrown at this problem to no avail.
Hope you enjoy the time with your family. Deptford is about 35 minutes from me.:thumbsup:
 
#58 · (Edited)
Is there actual water leaks into the interior of the home? If so you can sometimes narrow down the cause of the leak by doing a water test on the area working from low to high until you start to see the leak appear. This door may be too far gone to perform that test as it seems like an awful lot of the wood is gone already but you could give it a try.

I typically have one person on the inside of the home where the leak will appear either on the inside of the door or down in the basement below the front door. Down in the basement, if it is not finished, you can easily remove the insulation along the rim joist. Then you have one person outside with the hose spraying the door area with a steady fairly heavy mist. Basically you want to simulate rain. Don't do a full force stream. Start at the bottom, like the porch area, and spray that area for a couple of minutes, then continue to work your way up the face of the house a couple of minutes on each area. Once you start to see the leak in the house you should have a good idea of what is causing the leak.

Like others have already said, from the pictures provided, it looks like you may have several issues here and that could work against you when using this leak detection technique. You may fix the first problem you find but if you don't completely test it again after you are done, there may be a second area of concern that you did not address.

If I were to place bets on this situation, here's where I would be putting my money. Check that window over the front door, especially that sill above the window. Make sure that sill pitches away from the house. Also make sure that window is properly caulked and it hasn't dried out and cracked. I prefer to use PL Sealants for my window caulking. It isn't the easiest caulk to work with but I think it lasts forever. Add some weep holes over the door and along the porch if there aren't any. That door obviously needs to be replaced. Tell the home owner to make sure they keep up with the paint/stain on the new front door because the way it looks to me a lot of the rot is starting at the bottom of the door. That to me says it's from the rain splashing down in that area and saturating it. If they choose to stain that door, make sure they go with a marine varnish and it should probably be refinished every 3 years or so.

With that much exposure on the face of the house like that, you may suggest that they seal the brick as well. It is important to remember that masonry is always a porous material and if it gets saturated enough water will leak through to the other side. That is why proper drainage plains and flashing techniques are so important during construction. Well since taking the masonry all the way down and installing new drainage plains and flashing is rarely a financially responsible option, sealing the brick can greatly reduce the amount of moisture penetrating the masonry. The reason I only resort to this as a final measure is that once you seal the masonry it becomes another maintenance issue that will have to kept up with every couple of years.

Good Luck.
 
#64 ·
thanks.



It appears that there is no basement under this part of the home. It was extended outward past the original home. So it seems to sit on whatever foundation materials the contractor used.
The rot is starting at the bottom of the door from the rain splashing down in that area and saturating it----- would you suggest her altering the front ...maybe having a covered entry, of sorts being added, to avoid the rain's direct afront?
She said,...that she did have the door stained well after instillation and the contractor used marine varnish. After her leaks started, she gave up on refinishing, as she could see the need for replacement approaching rapidly.
New kink...she states, after the initial instillation she saw water in one of the sidelites and had it serviced by the manufacturer...they ended up replacing the pane of that sidelite. I am not sure what to make of that one.
 
#61 ·
Removal of the brick rowlock is a good place to start, water infiltration should be evident at this point. A limestone sill, properly installed will possibly solve the leak, but doesn't rectify the flashing problems that exist. It appears from the pics that another gable may exist to the right of the door, which may also add to the cause of water infiltration.

Ms. Boop, more pics are in order. Please include yourself in a pic of the door area for purposes of scale.:whistling Thank you.:thumbsup:
 
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#79 ·
quote=OGStilts;705540

Here's an example of the type of copper roof I was talking about. I had my ornamental iron contractor build this entire piece including the lights. Like I said this may not be architecturally accurate for your house but it might be an easy solution.

View attachment 20002
That is lovely and would look very nice after the source is found and corrected.
Let's just wait and see how this develops.
 
#72 ·
To further Gus' education.....:laughing:

"In a way the Empire State Building was unearthed just outside of Bloomington, Ind. So were the Pentagon and New York City's Rockefeller Center. Clad in limestone from Southern Indiana's legendary deposits, these are just a few of this country's most famous buildings that began in IU's backyard...........
Look up at the Empire State Building in New York City and you will see an almost endless ribbon of soaring stone—Indiana limestone, to be precise. The Empire State Building, Pentagon, Chicago Tribune Building, and many university structures, state capitols, post offices, and churches in every state (and buildings in other countries) are constructed of this exceptional material, renowned for its durability, consistency, and capacity to accept and retain fine detail. When part of the Pentagon was destroyed after 9/11, an Indiana quarry went to work, mining 46 truckloads of limestone to be sent to the Washington site and enabling reconstruction to be completed ahead of schedule........"


credit:
Limestone Lives
Voices from the Indiana Stone Belt
Katherine Ferrucci
 
#81 · (Edited)
The brick ledge above the door is like a spring board for water when it rains. It leaves the ledge with enough force that when it rains it splashes back up on the door.

The brick detail to the left of the door is even worse, it allows the water to flow onto the door frame and back on to the threshold.

Like holding a cup and just pouring on the frame.

The design is craptacular.

The worst two brick details you could possibly put together and of course everyone gets blamed but the idiots who designed it.
 
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