cultured stone grouting?? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

beleive · 08-24-2009, 08:29 AM

Me and my brother been using grout bags to grout with, we've tried the quikpointing guns few yrs back, felt like just as fast as it? Is there any idea's anybody come up with? You would think someone would invent a grount pump small one? these ole bags are wearing my joints out. Thanks for any info. kevin

Project_Pat · 08-24-2009, 10:21 AM

It's a PITA job for sure

one thing about grouting the joints in cultured stone is be very careful not to smear any grout(cement ect) on the stone... Some of the cultured stone I have worked with is very porus and you will never be able to remove grout haze from it like you can with real stone

adrenaline-guy · 08-24-2009, 10:43 AM

One technique my guys use is to set the cultured stone with masonry mortar over metal lath, let it dry a bit, then brush it off the stone with a wire brush and smooth out the texture with a softer brush if necessary. Might not work with every type of cultured stone, so you might want to do a sample first.

This works well with masonry mortar, colored tile grout might stain.

Tscarborough · 08-24-2009, 10:53 AM

I use the squeeze method for faux brick, not so much for faux stone.

atmasonry · 08-24-2009, 10:59 AM

Hello believe, I have seen a small hand worked grout pump. The hose is a flexible clear tubing about 1/2" in diamenter. I don't know who makes it and don't know how feasible it would work. I would think you would work off a table or ground when working low and with one hand work the pump and with the other guide the grout into place. Do a search on the net maybe?

I try not to get too far ahead of myself with cultured stone just for that same reason of having then to grout and joint all day. It's the most difficult and important part. A lousy jointer will ruin even the best laid work.

Good luck.

jomama · 08-24-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atmasonry

Hello believe, I have seen a small hand worked grout pump. The hose is a flexible clear tubing about 1/5" in diamenter. I don't know who makes it and don't know how feasible it would work. I would think you would work off a table or ground when working low and with one hand work the pump and with the other guide the grout into place. Do a search on the net maybe?

I try not to get too far ahead of myself with cultured stone just for that same reason of having then to grout and joint all day. It's the most difficult and important part. A lousy jointer will ruin even the best laid work.

Good luck.

I couldn't agree more!

I use disposable bags from Bon Tool. I think a box of 50 cost 10-20 bucks. They are re-usable for a while & the simple plastic material seems to require less effort.

Also, DO NOT fill the grout bag very full & try twisting the back of the grout bag (where its all bunched up) instead of squeezing at the tip end.

stacker · 08-24-2009, 06:50 PM

about 20 years ago me and a buddy who worked for us,invented a pneumatic grouter.it held about 5 gallons of mud,had a spout at the bottom for a grout hose,and chuck for air at the top.we used an old inner tube for a gasket,and wingnuts to tighten the lid down.it worked good for about 5 mins.the air pressure slowly pushed the grout out into the hose,but it would soon go down the side of the tank and find the hose.hell we had visions of making millions on this selling them to golblatt!
anyway,until someone comes up with a better way,the grout bag is the only way to go.and the best way is lay about 20 sqft and grout.that way you are not wearing your hand out.i do not twist the bag.i hold it in my hands,use my left hand to guide the bag and squeeze with my right.fill it about 3/4 full and squeeze out a small amount to get out any air pockets.

adrenaline-guy · 08-24-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacker

about 20 years ago me and a buddy who worked for us,invented a pneumatic grouter.it held about 5 gallons of mud,had a spout at the bottom for a grout hose,and chuck for air at the top.we used an old inner tube for a gasket,and wingnuts to tighten the lid down.it worked good for about 5 mins.the air pressure slowly pushed the grout out into the hose,but it would soon go down the side of the tank and find the hose.hell we had visions of making millions on this selling them to golblatt!
anyway,until someone comes up with a better way,the grout bag is the only way to go.and the best way is lay about 20 sqft and grout.that way you are not wearing your hand out.i do not twist the bag.i hold it in my hands,use my left hand to guide the bag and squeeze with my right.fill it about 3/4 full and squeeze out a small amount to get out any air pockets.

Okay, I can't help but like this guy. Very inventive. You still might have something with the pneumatic grouter thing. Don't give up!

artisanstone · 08-25-2009, 05:29 AM

Imer makes a small grout pump that can be used for tuck pointing. It's $$$ though.

atmasonry · 08-28-2009, 03:34 PM

Guys, I have found that folding and rolling the grout bag works much better than twisting. Also the ease in which the grout comes out depends on the mix, ie. not too much sand as sand will tend to clog the bag as the water more easily runs through leaving the matter behind in the bag.

My personal preferrence is the bag though, with a good and proper mix and I do not bring the grout out to the depth of the stone instead keeping it only as thick as the first 1/8" past the stone's perimeter. Then I joint with a steel "specialized" custom jointer and brush. My joints are picture perfect useing this method. Joint and then brush, but hey, some contractors and home owners either don't know this or don't care. So i have seen some pretty shabby work in my experience performed by sloppy workers.

Thanks.

atmasonry · 08-28-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenaline-guy

One technique my guys use is to set the cultured stone with masonry mortar over metal lath, let it dry a bit, then brush it off the stone with a wire brush and smooth out the texture with a softer brush if necessary. Might not work with every type of cultured stone, so you might want to do a sample first.

This works well with masonry mortar, colored tile grout might stain.

This work is amature, A mere foundation wall type of work that should have shrubs around it. Not to be in the kitchen living area. But to the general public who can't discern right from wrong it seems to do. I don't think you have yet seen what quality stone work is supposed to look like, you also get this done for your clients at half the price.

Good luck.

tomstruble · 08-28-2009, 04:50 PM

any pics of your work?

Captainsls · 08-28-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atmasonry

This work is amature, A mere foundation wall type of work that should have shrubs around it. Not to be in the kitchen living area. But to the general public who can't discern right from wrong it seems to do. I don't think you have yet seen what quality stone work is supposed to look like, you also get this done for your clients at half the price.

Good luck.

I fully agree. adrenaline-guy, watch your bond lines and where is the scratch coat? I think you could afford to keep your work a bit cleaner and tighten up those joints. Try not to keep all the small pieces grouped togeather (if you have to use them in the first place).

In regard to the OP's question, I am with Tscar. I use the "squeeze method" for natural stone veneers. Having never used faux stone, couldnt you just keep your joints tight enough to not need pointing?

atmasonry · 08-29-2009, 10:33 AM

I try to keep the joints no more than 5/8"in. at intersections, and 1/2"in. at parallels (semi). At stone intersections and vertical offsets (bond) the stone joints should be at 4" apart is what I was taught, for strength as opposed to a "stack" type method. As far as grouting work is concerned I have found the the recessed flat joint gives the best appearance.

Oh, believe, let us know if you do locate something better than the grout bag. I prefer the grout bag on walls but on flatwork you can't beat the pointing gun that work off a drill. The hoppers are a little small though.

Good luck

Tscarborough · 08-29-2009, 10:57 AM

The joint depends upon what you are going for. In this area, a very popular type of joint is pretty much what is shown above by adrenaline-guy (that stone also looks like the local limestone which is very absorptive, and it shows). I find myself having to make myself work sloppy a lot of the time with faux stone, the look they are going for is not classicly jointed modularized stonewerk.

adrenaline-guy · 08-29-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atmasonry

This work is amature, A mere foundation wall type of work that should have shrubs around it. Not to be in the kitchen living area. But to the general public who can't discern right from wrong it seems to do. I don't think you have yet seen what quality stone work is supposed to look like, you also get this done for your clients at half the price.

Good luck.

Wow. PUI? You don't know everything, cowboy, there are several techniques out there for getting the same result. Pretty bold statement for you to say I haven't even seen what quality stone work is supposed to look like, especially when you can't even spell "amateur" correctly.

We've worked for movie directors, members of the senate & house of representatives, professional athletes, and a billionaire or two. How 'bout you, sunshine? Post up some pics.

tomstruble · 08-29-2009, 01:24 PM

jomama · 08-29-2009, 02:31 PM

Off topic just a little, but what is the blue substrate that the stone is being stuck to in the picture? I might live in bubble or something, because I've never seen that before.

Tscarborough · 08-29-2009, 04:08 PM

Here is a picture of that type of joint, it is the one on the bottom and is called burlap or smeared joint. Note that all the grouting is still wet, so the stone are rimmed with the moisture penetration, as in Adrenaline Guys photo.

dakzaag · 08-29-2009, 07:47 PM

I think the bag is way better than anything else I have tried. Spent two hours on a porch floor today with a bag and it came out nice, but still only half done.

Quote:

Here is a picture of that type of joint, it is the one on the bottom and is called burlap or smeared joint. Note that all the grouting is still wet, so the stone are rimmed with the moisture penetration, as in Adrenaline Guys photo.

Not sure I care for either example, but thanks for putting in your picture.

Just curious about the jack arch, would it look better, the same or worse to extend the arch beyond the edge of the door. To me one additional brick on each side would be more attractive, but my wife says I have the style sense of a lizard.