Cultured Stone

 
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Old 08-31-2006, 08:04 PM   #1
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Cultured Stone


Hi, first post
I'm beginning to get into cultured stone installations and have a few questions.
It seems that installing metal lathe is a little time consuming, is there a quick way of putting it up. Right now we are cutting it with wire cutters and that is no fun and then nailing it up with gal. roofing nails also no fun. I'm thinking a nail gun would speed things up a bit. How about nails or staples shot in with a air gun. What is the best way to cut the lathe?
We have been using Ardex thinset to lay the stone and that seems bullet proof, real sticky and it bonds great it is just somewhat expensive, is there a good alternative besides regular mortar, that just doesn't seem to bond very well.
Thanks for the help
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Old 08-31-2006, 08:28 PM   #2
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Re: Cultured Stone


This is how I install it. First to cut it too fit I use a set of KETT power sheers. Then to put it on the wall I staple it up with 3/8 inch staples in a hammer tacker, once I get it all on I follow up with a 1 inch crown 16 gauge pneumatic stapler. As far as mortar to stick it on I use a sticky mix of type S.

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Old 08-31-2006, 08:29 PM   #3
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Re: Cultured Stone


I use an air gun. Hitachi staple gun actually. I use my nazi saw to cut the lathe. Fast and easy. Keeps the bleeding to a minimum. Always put the cups up!

As far as sticking stone on, Ive never had a problem with regular mortar. A nice scratch coat, let it dry a half day or more, then lay your stone with regular mortar.
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Old 08-31-2006, 09:33 PM   #4
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Re: Cultured Stone


after 29 years of making and installing phoney stoney,i can say i have tried it all.
what i have found is either electric sheers or tin snips to cut the lath.sheers work best.3/8 staples from an air stapler.my mud is mixed as follows:10 shovels(sq pt) clean mason sand,one sack mason cement,one shovel portland,7 shovels of sand.coloring optional.
scratch a thin coat onto the lath,i dont scrath more than about 12 sq ft at a time.follow that with another coat of mud about 3/8 thick.pick up a stone and push into the mud....after your area of mud is covered with stone.fill your grout bag with same mud and fill joints.move on down the wall.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:59 PM   #5
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Re: Cultured Stone


I know I'm gonna sound like the company rep.,but spec mix works great on phoney stone.I might mix a bit of thinset in with it,possibly some glue.I usually have my brown coat on already and set against it.Just glob the mud heavily on the back of the stone,groove a furrow down the middle and squish it on,cleaning the edges.For a small crew,where you're not using a lot of mud the savings in cleanup and labor offset the cost.A tender can easily handmix enough to keep two masons going eliminating the need to have a mixer drying up on you between batches.You have no washout and your mud is always fresh.

When I do cut lath,I usually use about two pints of blood.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:16 PM   #6
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Re: Cultured Stone


Only waste money on thinset when you are sticking to CMU or hardi backer. Over lath, regular Type S works fine. I use a rotozip or skill saw to cut lath, depending upon how much at a time, snips on casing.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:39 PM   #7
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Re: Cultured Stone


the only time i will butter the back of a rock is if i have trouble with it sticking.also there is no need to allow your scratch coat to dry.put on your scratch and come right back over with a thicker coat and stick the stone to it.i am not bragging but i will lay from 200-300 feet a day using this method and that is farting around.every stone you pick up will go somewhere.eliminate the steps and your count picks up.my best day laying artifical stone is 456 sq ft.now,that was with a man grouting behind me and another striking the joints.and i put the face on an 8x8 fireplace from start(nailing lath)to finish(clean up)in 2 hours once with one laborer.now that doesnt happen everyday,but you can lay this as fast as you really want too.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:45 PM   #8
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Re: Cultured Stone


I agree, 2-300 Sqft a day is easy if you have a laborer helping, even including lathing. I also agree on the "soft" scratch coat. I do butter when using thinset over hard backer, though.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:55 PM   #9
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Re: Cultured Stone


Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker
after 29 years of making and installing phoney stoney,i can say i have tried it all.
what i have found is either electric sheers or tin snips to cut the lath.sheers work best.3/8 staples from an air stapler.my mud is mixed as follows:10 shovels(sq pt) clean mason sand,one sack mason cement,one shovel portland,7 shovels of sand.coloring optional.
scratch a thin coat onto the lath,i dont scrath more than about 12 sq ft at a time.follow that with another coat of mud about 3/8 thick.pick up a stone and push into the mud....after your area of mud is covered with stone.fill your grout bag with same mud and fill joints.move on down the wall.
Has anybody else ever used this for grouting phoney stone......

Name:  quikuse.jpg
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It works great.
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Old 09-02-2006, 04:54 AM   #10
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Re: Cultured Stone


how fast can you lay the ledgestone types, tight fitting with no mortar joints. It seems we are cutting alot of pieces for a tight fit. we are using cultured stone 'bucks county southern ledgestone'. I almost feel I can lay natural stone faster at least you can hit it with a hammer and it brakes, this fake stuff is pretty delicate. how do you cut this stuff fast, we are using my brick saw,it make good cuts but alot of back and forth to get it just right
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:11 AM   #11
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Re: Cultured Stone


"Cut"? What do you mean cut? Maybe a couple of closers, but as a rule I don't cut any.
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:24 AM   #12
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Re: Cultured Stone


Quote:
Originally Posted by mant
how fast can you lay the ledgestone types, tight fitting with no mortar joints. It seems we are cutting alot of pieces for a tight fit. we are using cultured stone 'bucks county southern ledgestone'. I almost feel I can lay natural stone faster at least you can hit it with a hammer and it brakes, this fake stuff is pretty delicate. how do you cut this stuff fast, we are using my brick saw,it make good cuts but alot of back and forth to get it just right
I use a 4.5' grinder with a diamomd blade.A clean trowel works better than a brick hammer.Don't try to get a real tight fit like with real stone.It'll take cutting every peice.Try to keep the tops level even if there is a slight gap under one end/Use colored mud.
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Old 09-02-2006, 11:48 AM   #13
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Re: Cultured Stone


I've been filling every open space, I think it looks better that way or else don't you see mortar behind and around the odd fitting shapes? It seems like if you don't get the fit tight anyone could just throw up the stuff. I'm talking the type with no pointing just stone, if I was pointing then you could take less care in fitting. IMHO
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Old 09-02-2006, 01:13 PM   #14
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Re: Cultured Stone


The fastest and easiest way to cut lath would be with a self-exciting plasma cutter using a straight-edge as a guide if you want perfectly straight lines and you can freehand the curves. It's a bit of an investment when buying a plasma but it's a huge timesaver. I have a plasma of my own but it's not self-exciting. Cutting through sheetmetal is like writing with a pencil.
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Old 09-02-2006, 02:17 PM   #15
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Re: Cultured Stone


Southern Ledgestone (most of them, for that matter) are made to be able to be drystacked. There are 2 ways to do it to make it easier. One way is to lay the stone out on the ground beforehand so that you pick up the piece and place it. The other way is to pre-sort the shapes, which is the way I prefer to do it. Either way, you should be able to slap it into the wall with no joints and no cutting (Although I do beat off any flash), other than a small amount for the closers, where you bring the 2 edges together in the middle.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:25 PM   #16
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Re: Cultured Stone


Cultured Stone-cardwell-house-017-small-.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by mant
I've been filling every open space, I think it looks better that way or else don't you see mortar behind and around the odd fitting shapes? It seems like if you don't get the fit tight anyone could just throw up the stuff. I'm talking the type with no pointing just stone, if I was pointing then you could take less care in fitting. IMHO
We put some Centurion, Kentucky Ledge on a fireplace and it stacked up real nice.
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Old 09-02-2006, 05:26 PM   #17
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Re: Cultured Stone


Quote:
Originally Posted by mant
I've been filling every open space, I think it looks better that way or else don't you see mortar behind and around the odd fitting shapes? It seems like if you don't get the fit tight anyone could just throw up the stuff. I'm talking the type with no pointing just stone, if I was pointing then you could take less care in fitting. IMHO
I have the same trouble with ledge.It doesn't look right to me,but it is what it is.Basically anyone could do it.Sometimes the tenders are better at it than the masons.The point of using colored(dark) mud is so the gaps are dark and less visible.
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:39 PM   #18
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Re: Cultured Stone


Yo, BBL, that is some pretty stuff.
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Old 09-02-2006, 08:17 PM   #19
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Re: Cultured Stone


Thanks Tscar I use Centurion Stone quit often they have a pretty good product.
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:47 AM   #20
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Re: Cultured Stone


I use a Cultured Clean Cut to cut my stone . it is the fastest and cleanest ever. they have a web site

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