Bricking Above The Roof Line

dakzaag

Hello,
New guy here, I am looking at a set of prints with about 450 sq ft of siding that the owner would really prefer brick. Its either above the roof line or on suspended gables. Most of the areas are small but one gable has about 1/3 (40 sq ft) suspended above two floors with a little 2' arched window in the center of the gable. (front of the house, will be visible for a mile )

The house has 30,000 brick on brick ledge, so these are just corners and dormers that are second story and a chimney that comes out of the center of the house.

I'm thinking engineer prints with specs so the framing doesn't settle. Or can the carpenter beef it up by the seat of his pants? (that's what the GC/Carpenter is asking me.) I don't have enough experience to say that we can lag angle to the framing and away we go and I don't want to be back trying to fix later.

I do realize the flashing detail is a little more challenging and the staging and laying part will be a real PIA but $$$ will get them whatever they want.

Arch. drew up nice plans, but as usual the details are a little lacking.

Been bricking for about 4 years now, mostly residential, this would be the biggest house I've done. Worked with the builder before, with no problems the guy knows his stuff. I think this might be his first McMansion so there are a few details he may be willing to take some advice.

Thanks for any input

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

Tscarborough

Saw the faces off the brick, lath and plaster the areas and stick 'em.

__________________
It ain't Rocket Science unless you are building rockets.

dakzaag

I mentioned CS or thin brick to match, but I will walk before I saw 3000 face brick. Maybe I'm lazy.

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

Tscarborough

My guy saws about 2000 a day without working too hard. At a dollar a cut, why wouldn't you?

__________________
It ain't Rocket Science unless you are building rockets.

Tscarborough

Let me rephrase that. Do your laborers earn you 2000 dollars a day tending?

__________________
It ain't Rocket Science unless you are building rockets.

dakzaag

Maybe I'm cheap and lazy, I get a dollar for cuts, but we don't offer thin brick manufacturing.

So you wouldn't try lagging an angle to framing?

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

Tscarborough

Not only would I not do it, I would require a wavier before I laid brick on it if done by others. I am not a structural engineer.

__________________
It ain't Rocket Science unless you are building rockets.

Brickie

I agree with Tscar, I wouldn't do it. It's freaking cold here in NW Indiana, perfect time to be making a lot of cuts till the weather breaks next week

__________________
“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

dakzaag

Ok, thanks, thats how I felt as well.

I have talked to another GC who has done a house with some brick on framing, he just beefed up the truss and said it worked, but not sure he would do the same on this project (I showed him the prints, he agree's it is too much weight for just adding some extra 2X)

I get the idea of cutting the brick, but thats pretty spendy brick about 1.75 T n M before they hit the wall. I guess its good work if you can get it...

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

dakzaag

Thanks for the reply

Unfortunately I just have prints, not a contract. The hole hasn't been dug yet and I doubt they are doing it today (it is c c c cold), this is probably early spring if I get it.

Brickie, you ever make your own TB? I know Tscar is a guru around CT, but I haven't run into any job sites where they are making thier own material. But I haven't been around that much.

I have a consultant 35 years in the trade, he isn't keen on the unsupported brick either, but he is not keen on any new ideas, still thinks you work for 20/day and make out ok if you put in the days...

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

Tscarborough

If the house had been designed for those areas to be brick, and framed for the load, it wouldn't be an issue. Since it wasn't, it is very cost effective to do it with an adheered veneer. Is the brick one faced or can both sides be used? $750 per M is pretty pricey brick.

__________________
It ain't Rocket Science unless you are building rockets.

dakzaag

No brick picked out yet, might be a regional difference, but I have yet to see any 2 faced brick (lots of 2 faced people though

The brick could be 500m retail and then tax ship deliver, I guess 750 is a exaguration but still its a stretch for me to see cutting them...

I like the idea, I know they won't find a face brick they like and thin to match.

Your right about the design, I can only guess the GC doesn't want to get an Engineer involved, probably some other stuff will get spec'd that he has no problem doing as is.

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

dakzaag

The Archi did miss one gable that is definately suspended on one side about 1/3 without foundation support. Even if they side the rest, this gabel has to be bricked as it in the front and bricked 2 strories plus gable (12:12 roof) So that has to be detailed no matter what.

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

Tscarborough

It is pretty common for me sell cut brick (common as in maybe 20,000 brick a year). Both for use on gables and over roof lines and for interiors, primarily ceilings.

Lots of brick are 2 faced, although most modern cheapo face brick are not (but they don't usually cost 750 a M, either).

__________________
It ain't Rocket Science unless you are building rockets.

Brickie

No, I don't think it's a regional thing. I'm in NW Indiana & I've seen and used lots of two faced brick



It all depends on the brick, from whom you're buying it from and the deals that they can cut you. Who are you buying from, Crown or Curley or..???

__________________
“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

dakzaag

Crown n Curley provide most, some come out of Warsaw and Lafayette. I have done plenty of jobs where I just lay and the materials are provided. Only been at it 4 years now, but full time except of winter so I have plenty to learn.

Several jobs I thought the back side looked better than the front, but usually has a stamp or cleat marks that kind of thing. I bought 20000 from curley this year for one job, I didn't get much of a break (less than a penny)but I am new and just a little one horse show...

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

Brickie

On the prints does it specify a particular brick? or list an an allowance?



Yes, I have



.


Actually, It's quite common. Depending on the project, the sawman will be busy making miter, pistol, pork chop, TB and other cuts

__________________
“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

dakzaag

Prints show brick, no allowance, no detail, just "brick cladding"

Thanks for teaching me something, I listen to the saw run and think about wasted time, if the job was designed right there should be no need for a saw. But diamond blades are cheap compared to a lot of things any more.

Saw man cuts all kinds of stuff, but not 3000 thin, I still gotta digest that one.

Still have a problem in the gable, 2500 coming up off of brick ledge and bout 300 unsupported. Im checking the prints again to see what the end truss/rafter is setting on, has to be something there, these aren't construction prints...

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.

Brickie

There's no way to quote the job then.


Not me. I listen to the saw run which is the sound of me making money


I know this sawman, as well as others can




If you don't have the set up or just don't want to mess with it you can order it. You can't do that until someone decides on the brick so you can quote the job with the TB & regular brick.

__________________
“Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country.” – Ronald Reagan

dakzaag

you can order thins of any brick?

__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.