I've been talking about building an outdoor pizza/bake oven for years. This year I vow to build it.
I realize the best material would be firebrick, but I'm trying to do this by using all the odd ball masonry staked up around my yard.
I'm thinking firebrick for the floor and solid pavers for the vault. How do you think they would hold up? The brick work will be tight and neat.
I'm guessing they will be alright.
You need 4 inches of perlite/portland under the firebrick at an 8/1 ratio, then a fireclay slurry to set the firebrick. Nothing between them, ashes will fill any minor gaps.
Looks good so far, hurry up!
I just did 6, I am stuffed, as is this end of the neighborhood.
Fricken' Tscar's got to beat me to it once again......................:whistling
When I built this one a few years ago, I know it was 2" minimum below the firebrick. 4" can't hurt, that is IF you have the room now. Of course, Tscar's ratio is right on for the perlite, although I didn't know better at the time & I went 6:1 instead. I don't get a chance to use the one I built personally as it's a customers, so I'm not exactly sure if it needs to be 4", or if 2" would suffice, but I'd surely do something as it's gotta be hard to get the floor to optimum temps without any.
Thanks! all great ideas, keep them coming. I would like to only do 2" of insulation under the brick so the floor of the oven doesn't get too high.
I think I'm also going to use firebrick for the dome. I was planning on using some odd solid pavers I have left over form a couple jobs, but I would have to buy more anyway. I might as well build this thing the right way, bite the bullet and buy firebrick.
Just thinking out loud.- Whats your opinion on me going the full 4" of perlite under the floor, but using the split firebrick?
Thanks! all great ideas, keep them coming. I would like to only do 2" of insulation under the brick so the floor of the oven doesn't get too high.
I think I'm also going to use firebrick for the dome. I was planning on using some odd solid pavers I have left over form a couple jobs, but I would have to buy more anyway. I might as well build this thing the right way, bite the bullet and buy firebrick.
Just thinking out loud.- Whats your opinion on me going the full 4" of perlite under the floor, but using the split firebrick?
Guess it doesn't take much to get me excited. :laughing: I'm looking at pizza tools...and I want to run outside and strip the slab I poured less then 24 hours ago. :laughing:
Speaking of tools. What do I need? A peel for sure, but how about one of those brush/scraper units?
If you ever feel you've compromised a bit because of the height issue, you could always retrofit a layer of insulation under your concrete, or even just build a door for your storage area and keep it closed.
The Mugnaini pizza ovens I usually build and consider to be the best are very seriously insulated. They have a 6" layer of concrete, 6" of sand, and then a 3' layer of concrete with the oven floor installed on top of that.
Common sense would tell you the insulation on the sides and roof are the most important. The ovens I build get so huge they're not practical for most back yards, but probably worth checking out their drawings - I think I posted a link earlier in the thread - their website is http://www.mugnaini.com/
So the insulation under the floor is necessary? To get a good cooking temp?
I have a 5" slab over steel decking. It would be easy for me to glue a couple sheets of High-R foam under there. What do you think dbrons?
I think the ones I've done are overkill, but I've never burned one so I'm not sure. It's just a question of how high a temp and how long your oven will hold the heat. I'd just try it out and if you think a layer underneath would help, easy to add one
Dave
CJ, I think trying to heat up 7-8" of mass to an acceptable temp is going to be something you regret in the long term. I'd still suggest at least 2" of insulating castable between the two now while it's still easy to do. Something tells me getting enough heat to radiate downward to the floor is a big enough challenge the way it is w/o the insulation buffer.
The floor insulation is the most important, as that is the area of the oven that is hardest to get hot. You do not want the slab sucking heat out of your floor firebrick. When mine is at full steam, the ceiling and walls will be over 900 degrees, but the floor will only be 7-750.
If I close it up after cooking pizza, by the next day it will equalize out to around 600 everywhere.
Commercial ovens are a little different in that once you fire it up, it will seldom if ever cool down to ambient, so excess mass is not a bad thing. Sand is not a very good insulator, but it does act as an insulating mass. I would never use sand for a home oven.
OK, guess I'll go with the 2" under the firebrick. If the floor starts getting too high I do have the option of raising the grade around the oven. Not that big of a deal.
That will put your floor at 48-1/2. Mine is 41-1/2, but I have to bend over to look inside. I used the height of my elbow to make working the tools easier, but on the next one I will make it about 44-46", so you should be good.
the top of the upper layer of concrete is 3'9" above grade and the oven floor itself is about 2" thick so 3"11" overall. You want to be able to look inside so I'd say even a few inches higher would work but of course with the insulation up top and roof the thing gets too tall looking real fast, so getting one to work well and look proportional is a challenge.
Dbrons, I finally looked at those plans. I would eliminate the sand bed, tar paper and WWF, and substitute 4-6" of perlcrete. I would also not waste the money for an insulating blanket over an oven surrounded by loose fill perlite. if done igloo style, then obviously it is still required.
Yeah I agree tscar. Their design is way over the top. That's why I'm learning what I can from these projects. I'm hoping to come up with a hand built design I can offer that would be more reasonable.
The Mugaini are known to really hold the heat though
Dbron, holding heat is one thing, and is something to be valued, but for home use, the priority has to be minimizing the time and wood required to bring the oven to operating temperature.
So far from what I have been able to learn, a solid 4" masonry mass, floor, walls, and ceiling, isolated and heavily insulated is optimal. As for shape, I do not think it matters nearly as much as it is made out to be.
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