Block Wall Under Existing Roof/ceiling...

StPete727

I need to support an existing roof with jacks and beams inside dwelling. The roof is comprised of 2x8 at about a 2/12 pitch with no ceiling joists just insulated and drywalled. The beams span about 16' along the roofline, with no mechanicals, plumbing, electrical within the space. I just need to support this roof with jacks and a beam running as close to the existing support structure as possible. Then I can demo the existing windows/wall and continue the block knee wall up to under the 2x8 roof line.

My question is, when I get to the top I need to pour a continuous reinforced beam across the top before adding my top plate PT 2x8. Then, I need to tie in my existing roof (using Simpson ties and toenail with a palm nailer).

If this challenge was a frame wall, it would be no challenge at all. But since it's a block structure, how do I get my roof line to sit exactly where it need to without too much demo?

I'm guessing I'll half to cut at least 3' of drywall back from the outside wall in the house to gain access. I could also tear out the soffit outside...

Is there a technique trick here?

genecarp

http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/ju...portant-60787/

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rbsremodeling

Yep its called experience.

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loneframer

Well said RBS, by the way, how's that pimpin' thing panning out in this economy?

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"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"



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StPete727

Admittedly I've only had 10yrs experience mostly in remodeling and additions. Block work is not foreign to me, but not my expertise my any means. I'm not a homeowner, I don't know how to prove that other than post my GC license # which I won't do. Actually I don't know what pimpin' means in this situation, but business is very good for me and my crew of 2 people. Yes, I'm a young, small, growing remodeling crew. I've been lisenced for 3 yrs.

rbsremodeling

Ok lets try this, post your location and name of your company in your profile.

There is a section to introduce yourself to the forum and let other know who you are and what you do.

For some reason people here like to know who the are taking to, bit of a strange habit they have but I went along with it when I joined.

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bert0168

I would love to help you out here.

The answer is pretty easy, but as Gene posted, maybe a little better/more info in your sig and an intro would get you some better answers.

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www.ddcontractors.net

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

StPete727

Ok, I see what you mean. I posted my info. and website. I don't like having to ask a question like this, because it shows my lack of experience in this field. But I found that the biggest hacks in this bus. never admit they don't know something. I'm not that type, and it has served me well so far.

bert0168

That's better and I do see you have been here since '08.

Since it's Sunday, I believe you are a contractor, and you are correct about the hack part, here goes.

So, if it's a block wall, (8x8x16 I assume) why does it need a continuous reinforced beam at the top? I would think the block wall with the proper footing, solid cap blocks at the top, strap anchors and a TS plate are enough, unless I am missing something.

As far as the wall height, shoot an elevation for the location you want the top of the top plate to be and mark it on a side wall or somewhere it isn't going to be moved or removed. Build your temp wall but use an LVL or other solid beam to span wall to wall. Jack the whole thing up about 1/2" higher than you want to finish at and build your block wall. When you are done, let the temp beam down and the wall will return to it's original elevation.

Same as what you would do if you were replacing rotted porch posts.

Granted, this won't be easy to finish at the exact elevation you need but with careful planning and constant checking as you go up, it should be doable.

At least I know my mason sub can get this done for me

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

rbsremodeling

He is in Florida it probably requires a bond beam.

Form up the bond beam with plywood and notch out for the rafters and the plate height. Pour it in place strip the forms and slide the plate in.

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bert0168

Could be.

So what is a bond beam?

Sounds like a formed, reinforced, poured in place kind of lintel.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

rbsremodeling

Exactly what it is

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bert0168

Now I am curious as to how this works.

I guess you would need the solid cap block under the hollow CMUs to keep the concrete (or grout) from dropping.

I understand the desire for the continuous beam but is the idea that the poured beam is better bonded to the rest of the masonry?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

rbsremodeling

That would be my assumption. It is usually tied int to the walls as well. Sometimes your rebar runs up inside the walls and ties to the bond beam.

It is usually used and done this way in hurricane and high wind areas.

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bert0168

Thanks.

I learned something new today.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

rbsremodeling

We use to form the bond beams with plywood years ago and cast them in place.

They sell a hallowed out block that you can put steel in and cast them now.

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rbsremodeling

I think the plywood forms would be his best option.

You can account for the height of the plate and notch out the forms accordingly.

Once the beam is poured. He can pull of the form on the inside of the house and slide the plate in, then pull off the outside forms so the rafters can set back down on the plate. He probably will have to take out a small section of the roof to make the pour.

I wish I had some pictures but I have not done that type of work in years

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bert0168

Pretty interesting. We aren't in a hurricane or high wind area so we don't see that stuff up here.

Kind of what I figured it would be. At least I was on the right track.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

rbsremodeling

I was raised on an island in my teens and after one of the major hurricanes almost every house lost its roof. Fema came in an basically gave us florida building codes and introduced us to simpson clips and bond beams. I must have poured miles of concrete and used a million simpson clips in the 3 years it took us to put the roofs back on.

Back then we formed up the bond beam and notched out for roof rafters and poured the beam with the rafters locked into it. You needed a jackhammer to remove the rafter in 30 years after they rotted away. Rafters were 4x6's or 4x8's.

Men were men back then

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StPete727

This is what I had in mind. I could use "U" block if it's gonna work out that way, or most likely frame and pour exactly what I need. I'm thinking of not using a top plate and just using flashing under my rafters. Then just tapcon my straps to the inside, fur, and drywall.