Block Spacers

 
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:24 AM   #1
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Block Spacers


I said something about this guy getting the block all smeared up and looking nasty, and he replied that it was water, not mortar. I replied that I've been doing this a while and know what mortar stains are.

He got very pissy and erased my message and sent me some personal messages that were nasty. Funny stuff.

Heres his vid if you'd like to see the 'water marks' on the block.
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Last edited by 6stringmason; 12-20-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:59 AM   #2
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Re: Block Spacers


lol...nasty indeed

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Old 12-20-2009, 12:04 PM   #3
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Re: Block Spacers


Hack.

Don't you guys hit the webs when laying block?
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:06 PM   #4
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Re: Block Spacers


Very sad DIY approach with slop for mud.

No way to adjust for height variations.

I got a kick of of the joint tooling of the too wet, uncompacted mortar with a finger.

It has to be a weak marginal wall that will leak.

It is very slow and costly.

You only hit the webs if you use "Florida style" block and it not required plus it can be detrimantal.
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Last edited by concretemasonry; 12-20-2009 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:08 PM   #5
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Re: Block Spacers


HAHA what did you expect from a DIY product? My favorite part of the video is when he "strikes" the joints with his finger. Seriously though someone using these spacers are most likely less skilled than a first year apprentice.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:50 PM   #6
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Re: Block Spacers


Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
Very sad DIY approach with slop for mud.

No way to adjust for height variations.

I got a kick of of the joint tooling of the too wet, uncompacted mortar with a finger.

It has to be a weak marginal wall that will leak.

It is very slow and costly.

You only hit the webs if you use "Florida style" block and it not required plus it can be detrimantal.
How can it be detrimental?

What is a Florida style block?

The blocks we use look like the ones in the hackmasters video.

On all the plans I have drawn, I have always had a note stating that they would have the webs hit, on some notes they only hit the webs on poured cells.

The way I looked at it, the more mortar, the better, as mortar is stroger than nothing, but I am not a block mason.
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Old 12-20-2009, 01:12 PM   #7
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Re: Block Spacers


yeah i really like striking the joints with his finger.he must have to soak it in cider at night to keep it in shape.

as far as mudding the webs.i will only do that on cell that will be grouted,or i need some extra support for the block.

nice vid six,when is your next installment coming out?
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Old 12-20-2009, 01:59 PM   #8
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Re: Block Spacers


Those spacers are everywhere. They turned across the pond a few days ago with webwilie.
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtop...437382#1437382
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:31 PM   #9
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Re: Block Spacers


A "Florida" style block is an 8x8x18 unit with 2 cores and smooth or flush ends. Most of the developed world uses block with open ends (not knuckle busters) and either 1 or 2 cores. The 2 core blocks do not have webs the align well, but the one central core (webs 8" on center) align perfectly and can be used with mortared webs or unmortared webs. - I have seen 20 story loadbearing block buildings (no steel ot concrete columns) built using 6x8x16 block (6" thick) with partial grouting/reinforcement and partial web mortaring ecept the first course (full bedding usually) and the cores surrounding a grouted/reinforced cell. The morater really has little effect on the compressive strength of a wall and the lateral loads use grout (usually specified to be lower strength of the block) to transfer the lateral loads between any reinforcement and the loadbearing portion of the wall (the block). I have seen 4800 psi f'm hollow block prisms made using mortar less than 2500 psi.

For many years the block in Florida consisted of 8x8x16 units (flush ends) and a few fittings to minimize the manufacturing cost and inventory necessary, while other areas of the U.S. and other countries made a wide range of block thicknesses (3",4",6",8",10",12",14" and 16") complete with different necessary shapes and fittings with different core arrangements including partial height (3 5/8" and starter block) to maintain proper coursing. Florida has expanded the variety of shapes and sizes, but so much is just buried or hidden in walls, the market does not demand too much sophistication.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:10 PM   #10
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Re: Block Spacers


compare that video to this video. Holy **** look how the guy butters the 12 inch block on the end while hes holding it in midair like its styrofoam! I like this guys technique. Using the back of the trowell to butter the near side. Way back when i worked for a contractor, the masons union on the large job we were on was requiring two masons to set 12 inch block.

ETA, but looking at that thin mortar bed, and thin consistency of the mortar itself. These HAVE to be lightweight units
http://write-results-p3.com/NewEvidenceofFire.pdf

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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Last edited by A W Smith; 12-20-2009 at 03:26 PM. Reason: gotta be light weight block
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:43 PM   #11
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Re: Block Spacers


can you imagine the guns on that guy?your looking at what 50-60 pounds on a lw 12?
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:49 PM   #12
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Re: Block Spacers


Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker View Post
can you imagine the guns on that guy?your looking at what 50-60 pounds on a lw 12?

If they are these,
http://write-results-p3.com/NewEvidenceofFire.pdf
they could be as light as 33 pounds, But I still wouldn't take the guys bar stool away from him on a Friday night.
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:00 PM   #13
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Re: Block Spacers


They could very well be lightweight units. Many of the block were laid upside-down in the second video and they still have the old-fashioned flush ends and some open core of pour-through bond beams mixed in for no economic or quality reason. The flush ends lead to thin head joints (the most likely moisture leakage point) since there are no mortar grooves to hold a proper amount of mortar that could be consolidated during tooling.

When we had seconds (off-color or companion colored block) we could not sell them to a good contractor (for a 10% discount) because of the loss of production and we just crushed the block for aggregate in backfill. - They would not buy "knuckle-busters" if they needed production for something like a warehouse or exposed work.

A center web with a wider top made it much easier to pick up and handle one-handed. The high production contractors wanted two core block with ears and mortar grooves on the end (mainly 12" block). Usually, a wider mortar bed on the top of the face shell was desired since it did add much waste and it minimized the droppings in the cores.

The first video showed the "mason" using face shell bedding, which is not permitted by some codes unless the engineer specifies it.

Every market has its own preferences or requirements. The two-man limit imposed by unions killed much of the masonry when it came to exposed or higher walls. In parts of southern Virginia, many/most/all of the block were 8" lightweight and the masons demanded a light 2-core block (for balance) with "ears" and mortar grooves since they always used 8" lightweight block and were accustomed to one-handing the block.
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:45 PM   #14
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Re: Block Spacers


I would sure like to be making 6 bucks a block with that guy in the second vid laying block for me.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:11 PM   #15
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Re: Block Spacers


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ9222 View Post
I would sure like to be making 6 bucks a block with that guy in the second vid laying block for me.
I counted 10, 12 inch block in 5 minutes i could watch that guy work all day!! was wondering when the camera guy was gonna step backward off the last scaffold section. Fortunately for him, the song ended.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:19 PM   #16
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Re: Block Spacers


Update:
I just got an email from webwillie. He said thanks for the publicity lol.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:30 PM   #17
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Re: Block Spacers


Quote:
Originally Posted by 6stringmason View Post
Update:
I just got an email from webwillie. He said thanks for the publicity lol.
Tell him
  1. we all know its not water
  2. he should wear a bib if he's that sloppy in everything he does
  3. he should watch the second video in this thread
  4. he should then rename his video "Wall of shame"
  5. spacers are for tile, not masonry.
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:24 PM   #18
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Re: Block Spacers


LW 12" block can be laid one handed, I worked on a job that we used LW rock face 12" that could be laid one handed no problem. That was the only time I have ever used rockface LW. I could only imagine what another bricklayer driving past the job thought if he saw us laying those one handed. As far as doubling up on a 12" block I personally do not like to do it unless we are above the 7th course. But I do understand why. We have many, many years of doing this before we can retire. Our bodies need to last for along time and we give them alot of punishment. Doubling up is meant to extend your career and has to do with quality of life during and after your career. I will double up on 12" if I'm working with an old guy or laying above 7 courses, but I'm sure my body will pay in the long run for not doing it more often.
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:32 PM   #19
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Re: Block Spacers


NJ Brickie -

What do you do with 14" and 16" thick heavyweight block? A good modern 12" 2 core block should only weigh 49 to 52# depending on the face shell thickness and the core design, which is more than some union requirements, but acceptable elsewhere.

If you have a scaffold, 7 courses should not be a problem if it is 12 or 13 course wall. A good tender or a lift will do most of the lifting, so it just like working off the ground. You might be able to get the truck to boom them on a low scaffold stage.
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:30 PM   #20
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Re: Block Spacers


conc. mason, which block in particular in the second video are you referring to when you say "upside down"???

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