The money game - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

BHR · 07-16-2009, 07:31 PM

I'm sick of it!

Ever notice that the auto manufacturers enjoy playing the shell game with the "deals" they advertise?

As an example - Ford

Recently they had a 5-0 promotion on all vehicles

No money down, no first month payment, no signing payment, no interest - i forgot the last one

The truck I looked at ended up costing $849.00 a month for 5 years.

Now they are pushing the "Employee Price" game (A-Plan)

Same truck now gets $8500.00 off, but...

Interest is now 7.99%

Truck now costs with the above plan "$849.00" per month for 5 years.

Marketting is a powerful tool but geepers how about making it seem real.

I notice this seems to be the norm for all these sales deals that all offers.

They promote it like its a great thing then move the money to their financing arm of the business and then back.

How about a real deal - like the A-Plan with 2.9% interest.

Never happen!

nlgutters · 07-16-2009, 07:40 PM

They want to some day make money.

Mike Finley · 07-16-2009, 07:47 PM

How about you go in and offer sticker price and pay that? That would end the frustrations wouldn't it?

Just like you in your business, there is a bottom line number that a company can't go below. You've found it on that truck, so now you know that now matter how they package it, it's going to be the same.

A given car has a bottom line price no matter what day of the week it is. 100 people can come in and make an offer on it and all 100 of them will never buy it for less then that bottom line price. 100 of them may pay a different price, but that price will always be that bottom line price or higher.

There is no such thing as a sale when it comes to automobiles. There is only the bottom line price and how you want to package it and arrive at it. The price remains the same Mon, Tues, Wed, Thur, Fri...

BCConstruction · 07-16-2009, 07:49 PM

They all play this stupid game. 99.9% of the time you can never get the rebates and the 0.0%apr or the offer does not apply to the model you are looking at. I bought a 2009 f150 back in 2008 and it had a MSRP of just over $50k and i got it for just a hair over $40k. But some people have got them as cheap as $38k and some people have not got a penny off and paid $50k. You just have to find a good dealer who is willing to do a deal.

BHR · 07-16-2009, 08:23 PM

The whole point that I am getting at here is if they are going to jump up and say "deal here, deal here" then by all standards there should be a deal of sorts. I know full well how they make things tick. But at the end of the day if they are promoting it as a sale and then jacking you on the finance side of it to balance their books then to me it reeks of collusion.

Do you really think that people would run out and buy if they had a "Here it is sticker priced sale" Nope - they would stay at home.

It's the calling of the sheep with the way they dupe people with marketting schemes.

JSB · 07-17-2009, 05:29 AM

It really is a business that prices its customers rather than its products. You have to have the time to look around and the will to say no if you want the best deal.
I always go in thinking they need me more than I need them and ask them what are they going to do to beat out the competition.
You are very right to say that you have to keep an eye on the interest rate. I just bought a new truck last week and if I would have went with an extra $500 rebate (Like they wanted me to) it would have cost me 3 points more in interest.
I am sure at least one point of that was going back to the dealer.

J F · 07-17-2009, 07:18 AM

Why not spec out the truck you want and email it to every dealer within 200 miles of you...this is the age of the internet, car/truck shopping is much easier.

Mike Finley · 07-17-2009, 08:43 AM

If you already know this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHR

Do you really think that people would run out and buy if they had a "Here it is sticker priced sale" Nope - they would stay at home.

It's the calling of the sheep with the way they dupe people with marketting schemes.

Why is this an issue :

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHR

The whole point that I am getting at here is if they are going to jump up and say "deal here, deal here" then by all standards there should be a deal of sorts.

Vehicle has a bottom line price. The price will never go below it, it makes no difference how you package it.

Want a $2000 rebate or an interest rate that adds up to a savings of $2000?

You have a trade in? Do you want me to give you $4000 for your trade in that is worth $1000 or do you want to keep your trade in and I take $3000 off the price of the new vehicle?

mmike032 · 07-17-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J F

Why not spec out the truck you want and email it to every dealer within 200 miles of you...this is the age of the internet, car/truck shopping is much easier.

thats what I did in '07, I went to the chevy website and speced what I wanted. Contacted dealers w/ my specs. My local dealer dicked me around about getting the truck for 2 weeks, so I went to another about 30 miles away and they had me the truck w/in a week.

BHR · 07-17-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

If you already know this:

Vehicle has a bottom line price. The price will never go below it, it makes no difference how you package it.

Want a $2000 rebate or an interest rate that adds up to a savings of $2000?

Absolutely - everything in this world has a bottom line price

Sales rebates are inconsiquential since those numbers do not truly exsist when the APR is raised to meet the rebate value. The only way a rebate does come to play is when you pay in cash - in full.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

You have a trade in? Do you want me to give you $4000 for your trade in that is worth $1000 or do you want to keep your trade in and I take $3000 off the price of the new vehicle?

That offer is a tad shy

At the top of the window sticker: MSRP - Dealer may sell for less. Well then, where is the less?

Like I said before - the point is, if they want to market it as a sale - then there should be a sale not a numbers/shell game.

To buy one now you get an 09 already built - in stock, take it or leave it. Does not apply to 2010 orders that are now 3k more for the same truck. I love the

behind it all

naptown CR · 07-17-2009, 06:25 PM

Want to really screw over a dealer
Have cash or financing in place before you go shopping.
make your best deal with financing.
Most dealers will make 2 or 3 percent on the financing.
Tell them you will finance through them if they give you x off the price
Within 30 days pay off the note with cash or other financing.
Federal law says that they can only charge you $.50 if you pay off within 30 days you get the discount the dealer gets stuck with the balance.
If you live in a small town this may be a problem but in a major metro area you can probably get away with it.
This is how I got 8 grand off the wifes last Lexus

slowforthecones · 07-18-2009, 01:45 AM

with cash for clunkers... a car dealer can suck my ----- if they dick me around. i'm looking around for a F150 super crew.

Handymanservice · 07-18-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naptown CR

Want to really screw over a dealer
Have cash or financing in place before you go shopping.
make your best deal with financing.
Most dealers will make 2 or 3 percent on the financing.
Tell them you will finance through them if they give you x off the price
Within 30 days pay off the note with cash or other financing.
Federal law says that they can only charge you $.50 if you pay off within 30 days you get the discount the dealer gets stuck with the balance.
If you live in a small town this may be a problem but in a major metro area you can probably get away with it.
This is how I got 8 grand off the wifes last Lexus

this week on AutoDealerTalk.com..........
"What is up with all these lowball, sneaky car buyer's? Don't they understand that we have a bottom line price and we cant go below it?
I was looking on CL the other day and these darn Auto Dealers were offering the same 09 F150's we are offering for $10,000 less, ****ing hacks!"

It is interesting to see how much complaining there is about us getting lowballed, screwed, ****ed over, sued and then to turn around and read a post here that begins with: "Want to really screw over a dealer?"

How is it that we expect to have our prices respected and get upset over people looking for alternatives to our greatest services offered. Yet, when we put on the consumer hat, we come in with lowball offers, shop 200 miles around, try to beat up the salesman for the lowest price, utilize financing schemes, etc?

Hello, Kettle?
This is Pot.
You're Black!

bwalley · 07-18-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handymanservice

this week on AutoDealerTalk.com..........
"What is up with all these lowball, sneaky car buyer's? Don't they understand that we have a bottom line price and we cant go below it?
I was looking on CL the other day and these darn Auto Dealers were offering the same 09 F150's we are offering for $10,000 less, ****ing hacks!"

It is interesting to see how much complaining there is about us getting lowballed, screwed, ****ed over, sued and then to turn around and read a post here that begins with: "Want to really screw over a dealer?"

How is it that we expect to have our prices respected and get upset over people looking for alternatives to our greatest services offered. Yet, when we put on the consumer hat, we come in with lowball offers, shop 200 miles around, try to beat up the salesman for the lowest price, utilize financing schemes, etc?

Hello, Kettle?
This is Pot.
You're Black!

When you quote prices for a job, do you work 5 different numbers at a time to keep your client confused?

Do you offer a kitchen remodel for $10,000 and then in the fine print say with $4500 cash down?

Do you show a picture of one job with a price listed and then in the fine print mention the one pictured has a bunch of options?

Do you play games with no money down, 90 days same as cash, etc. and ad the cost into you price?

Do you finance the job and make more money of financing then you do on the job?

Do you play games with their trade in like hiding the keys or saying they sold it already?

Do you push extended warranties on your jobs?

Do you play pricing games with your clients, or do you just quite them what you need to get the job done?

All of the above and more is very common in the auto industry, the dealers play games and don't want to just give you their best OTD price, they would rather try to play you to make a couple of extra dollars.

Handymanservice · 07-18-2009, 01:56 PM

I don't do any of the things you describe, but Many contractors do.

Every business is in business to make money. Period! If you don't like the way a dealer treats you, you go to another one, you don't try to "screw" the dealer, at least I don't.

If you want a new vehicle, it is a tough game and super competitive. I don't buy new, 2 years old or older is all I need. I have bought 9 vehicles so far from the same dealer, same location, over the last 12 years. He is usually a little more expensive than everyone else but his vehicles are clean. I have referred at least 30 sales his way and I get the lowest price he offers me and then sign the paperwork.

Find someone you trust, make the deal and move on. I guess I see things wrong in this thread, the "screw" the dealer is what got me off on my tangent.

BHR · 07-18-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handymanservice

I don't do any of the things you describe, but Many contractors do.

Every business is in business to make money. Period! If you don't like the way a dealer treats you, you go to another one, you don't try to "screw" the dealer, at least I don't.

Firstly, this thread had nothing to do with screwing the dealer or anyone else for that matter. Again, it is about the marketting schemes played out by the manufacturers. That's all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handymanservice

If you want a new vehicle, it is a tough game and super competitive. I don't buy new, 2 years old or older is all I need. I have bought 9 vehicles so far from the same dealer, same location, over the last 12 years. He is usually a little more expensive than everyone else but his vehicles are clean. I have referred at least 30 sales his way and I get the lowest price he offers me and then sign the paperwork.

Find someone you trust, make the deal and move on. I guess I see things wrong in this thread, the "screw" the dealer is what got me off on my tangent.

I have bought and leased from the same sales person for the past 18 years - Every three years x2 (myself and my wife). I do not BUY/LEASE used vehicles. So I would naturally assume that I have a good repor with this salesperson and always try and work the best deal possible. It's not about gouging him, the dealership or anyone else associated.

Again, it's about the shell game with the sales promotions and the financing arm of the manufacturers - nothing more.

tgeb · 07-19-2009, 07:19 AM

It's not really the dealers fault. A good segment of the population is so stupid that the dealers have had to develop sales tactics in order to get people to buy their cars.
For instance:
I once spoke with a dealer regarding pricing and he essentially said something like if he had a strait up deal on a particular car for say $18K he would have trouble moving the inventory, but the same car priced at $22K with $1,500 cash back bonus, inventory would be flying out the door. Then the idiots take the cash they think the auto company gave them and blow it on a weekend at the beach.

If you can secure alternate financing or pay in full, that would be the best way to pay work your deal. When the dealer wants 8% and you have legit financing for 4.5% they will very often meet what ever you have and may even do better.

Handymanservice · 07-20-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHR

Firstly, this thread had nothing to do with screwing the dealer or anyone else for that matter. Again, it is about the marketting schemes played out by the manufacturers. That's all!

I have bought and leased from the same sales person for the past 18 years - Every three years x2 (myself and my wife). I do not BUY/LEASE used vehicles. So I would naturally assume that I have a good repor with this salesperson and always try and work the best deal possible. It's not about gouging him, the dealership or anyone else associated.

Again, it's about the shell game with the sales promotions and the financing arm of the manufacturers - nothing more.

BHR - read post number 11, that was who my response was directed to.

JumboJack · 07-20-2009, 04:45 PM

Why don't you just tell the dealer "I'd build my own truck,but I just don't have the time"?

BHR · 07-20-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumboJack

Why don't you just tell the dealer "I'd build my own truck,but I just don't have the time"?

Seriously, I actually thought of doing that. I was looking at a 49 ford about 6 months ago and thought that it would be really cool to do as a truck for the business. Very nice truck - body was excellent - do it up, drop a 429 thunder jet w/top loader 4 speed and 3.73 gears - paint it burgandy & black to match my new trailer, then letter it.

I have always felt it would be a great attaction for business. Problem is my shop already has my 70 cyclone and a 65 mustang taking up space.

I still think about the idea though