Dado Stacks

 
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:37 AM   #1
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Dado Stacks


Lettusbe came up with a good question about dado stacks and I thought here could be a good time us grind dorks could discuss the perfect dado for the perfect application.

Hook angle - I mostly use mine on an RAS for cross-halving lumber so the lower the hook angle the happier I am. I would prefer something around -15 but I'm happy with -12. When running a 20 lbs blade and cutting thick lumber climb cutting is a real concern. If I was mainly using it in my PM72 I would want something between 0 to 2.

Outside cutters ATB+R - This is where to me all the controversy comes into play. I normally dislike a high ATB because its just more carbide coming into contact with the wood and dulling out quicker. On a Dado stack that has a negative hook angle I want about 15 degree's on the ATB on the outside cutter's, not the inside. The reason on the outside I like high angle's is because it is doing the cutting and I want as much removal on those outside area's from the sharpest area's of the blade, so the inside chipper's can do their job without getting "pinched" from stock pressure.

Outside cutters MTCG? - I've got a couple things I would like to try on dado's to see what they would do. A modified triple chip grind could work nicely but I'm not sure what the angles would have to be. I talked to the guy at Everlast for a while about the possibilities of it.

Chippers ATB+R? - I've often wondered on the larger if on the bigger blades if it would be possible to have left angle, raker, right angle, raker being as the chippers have 4 wings. Keep a 2-5 degree ATB and this would leave a beautifully smooth cut for each chipper instead of pushing as much material it would slice and throw.

Extra chippers? - I would prefer to have 3@1/8" 2@3/32" and 2@1/16" that way I'm not messing with as many shims but at the same token I don't have dedicated chippers to sizes and screwed if one chips or dulls out.

Shims or no? - I prefer shims because I am not relying on a manufacturer to make the chippers the exact size. Not to mention if a chipper dulls/chips/breaks during a bunch of dado's you don't have to stop and have it sharpened because it's the thickness chipper you need. While they claim it saves time in setup, if just one or two times you had to break down and wait for the sharpening... Any and all savings in time are gone.

Size matters - When cutting with an 8" I don't like cutting over 11/16" at a time because the teeth count is necessarily low and you are making more contact per tooth than a 10 or 12" blade. Most of the cutting action is done with the outside cutters and the wider the more work you are putting on those blades. With less width you are not asking more of those blades than they should be able to handle. With a 12" I have no problem cutting up to 1-1/8" at a time as long as it is a full sized kerf, because both the weight of the blade and the teeth count is going to help in cutting.

So for my perfect custom dado stack it's this:

-15 rake angle
15 ATB+R outside blades
5 ATB+R on chippers
some different sizes in chippers but multiple's of each
stainless shims
12" full kerf.
Then I'll make my own box for it and some kaizen foam.

I have to cut quite a bit with the dado today and I'll post a picture of the cut and mounted blade. The freud super dado is the one I have and it really is a pretty nice stack, not quite perfect but definitely worth the price. I'll be buying a custom stack at some point but not anytime soon.

We can discuss table saw dado's too. To me that is a completely different animal.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:26 AM   #2
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Re: Dado Stacks


Why do you consider table saw dados completely different?


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Old 01-11-2017, 11:29 AM   #3
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Re: Dado Stacks


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Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4 View Post
Why do you consider table saw dados completely different?


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Motor speed, ripping vs crosscut, and bottom feed vs top feed, back fence vs side fence, and the biggest is pulling blade towards you vs pushing board against blade (or blade climb vs pushback)
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:46 PM   #4
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Re: Dado Stacks


Whole lotta technical talk. I need pictures keep up with some of this. I know ATB and TCG. I know what hook angle is, but can never remember what it's supposed to look like for which type of saw.

I have only ever done dado work with my table saw in a rip scenario, using the common freud set from Dome Hopey. For crosscut dados I've always used the router.

Now that I have a 14" RAS, I'm looking forward to the Dado capability in Crosscut situations. But, I haven't found a setup yet with a 1" arbor. I don't need the full 14" diameter, 10" or 12" is fine for what I need.
Will be following the recommendations from the other thread.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:08 PM   #5
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Re: Dado Stacks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckhead View Post
Lettusbe came up with a good question about dado stacks and I thought here could be a good time us grind dorks could discuss the perfect dado for the perfect application.

Hook angle - I mostly use mine on an RAS for cross-halving lumber so the lower the hook angle the happier I am. I would prefer something around -15 but I'm happy with -12. When running a 20 lbs blade and cutting thick lumber climb cutting is a real concern. If I was mainly using it in my PM72 I would want something between 0 to 2.

Outside cutters ATB+R - This is where to me all the controversy comes into play. I normally dislike a high ATB because its just more carbide coming into contact with the wood and dulling out quicker. On a Dado stack that has a negative hook angle I want about 15 degree's on the ATB on the outside cutter's, not the inside. The reason on the outside I like high angle's is because it is doing the cutting and I want as much removal on those outside area's from the sharpest area's of the blade, so the inside chipper's can do their job without getting "pinched" from stock pressure.

Outside cutters MTCG? - I've got a couple things I would like to try on dado's to see what they would do. A modified triple chip grind could work nicely but I'm not sure what the angles would have to be. I talked to the guy at Everlast for a while about the possibilities of it.

Chippers ATB+R? - I've often wondered on the larger if on the bigger blades if it would be possible to have left angle, raker, right angle, raker being as the chippers have 4 wings. Keep a 2-5 degree ATB and this would leave a beautifully smooth cut for each chipper instead of pushing as much material it would slice and throw.

Extra chippers? - I would prefer to have 3@1/8" 2@3/32" and 2@1/16" that way I'm not messing with as many shims but at the same token I don't have dedicated chippers to sizes and screwed if one chips or dulls out.

Shims or no? - I prefer shims because I am not relying on a manufacturer to make the chippers the exact size. Not to mention if a chipper dulls/chips/breaks during a bunch of dado's you don't have to stop and have it sharpened because it's the thickness chipper you need. While they claim it saves time in setup, if just one or two times you had to break down and wait for the sharpening... Any and all savings in time are gone.

Size matters - When cutting with an 8" I don't like cutting over 11/16" at a time because the teeth count is necessarily low and you are making more contact per tooth than a 10 or 12" blade. Most of the cutting action is done with the outside cutters and the wider the more work you are putting on those blades. With less width you are not asking more of those blades than they should be able to handle. With a 12" I have no problem cutting up to 1-1/8" at a time as long as it is a full sized kerf, because both the weight of the blade and the teeth count is going to help in cutting.

So for my perfect custom dado stack it's this:

-15 rake angle
15 ATB+R outside blades
5 ATB+R on chippers
some different sizes in chippers but multiple's of each
stainless shims
12" full kerf.
Then I'll make my own box for it and some kaizen foam.

I have to cut quite a bit with the dado today and I'll post a picture of the cut and mounted blade. The freud super dado is the one I have and it really is a pretty nice stack, not quite perfect but definitely worth the price. I'll be buying a custom stack at some point but not anytime soon.

We can discuss table saw dado's too. To me that is a completely different animal.
For cross cut I'd say a -15* hook is a bit extreme. I'd see it generating extra heat. I'd also probably go straight ATB on the outers and leave the chippers as an FTG. Flattens the bottom and adds the stability of the raker tooth at the same time.

Unless you are cross cutting abrasives not sure I'd roll with a M-TCG. What's your reasoning?

15*-20* on the top grind works great. Nice balance between edge retention and clean cut. More chippers would always be nice to have same thing with shims.
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:33 PM   #6
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Re: Dado Stacks


I went to the store and there was a dado set that said "dado set" on it. I bought that.
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:29 PM   #7
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Re: Dado Stacks


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I went to the store and there was a dado set that said "dado set" on it. I bought that.
Actually Did that once ... tore the ever living F**K out of everything. Melamine, laminate, cross cut plywood & boards.

Freud 10" Super Stack
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:40 PM   #8
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Actually Did that once ... tore the ever living F**K out of everything. Melamine, laminate, cross cut plywood & boards.

Freud 10" Super Stack
I got the 8". It was about an even hundred if I remember correctly.

Had it for I think 3 or 4 years. No complaints. Comes with shims, cuts as well as I need it to.


Pictures would be cool in here though for the guys that are on this next level stuff.

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