Structurally Unstable Roof Pricing Question?

APC

Hello ALL,

I received an email from a possible client yesterday and he would like me to price out and perform the following services for him. The contractor he hired walked out on him, do not know why I am not really sure how to price out this job and was just looking for a ball park figure on what I should charge for labor ONLY. I am located in the Middle Tennessee area. Thanks


Dear Mr. and Mrs. ******:

As requested, I was at your residence on January 10, 2007, to perform a visual structural inspection of the bonus room framing. I understand that the contractor that built the bonus room never had a final inspection performed. The codes department performed a courtesy inspection and recommended that an engineer evaluate the header between the bonus room and existing house and the roof framing for the bonus room.

Based on the information that ***XX provided about the header, it appears to be a 3½-in. wide by 9¼-in. tall Timberstrand LSL. The header is only supporting about 3-ft of brick load and the LSL has sufficient capacity to support this load over the 6-ft span.

The roof of the bonus room is framed with trusses that were built on-site. The geometry of the trusses is not correct and the connections are poorly nailed. The trusses are actually braced from the ridge to a hog trough beam that bears on the bottom chord of the trusses, which is not a structurally stable configuration. The rafter member and bottom chord of the trusses are 2x4s. The roof line already has developed significant sags. The trusses were installed at 2-ft on-center and the H-clips were not used on the roof sheathing to prevent flexing along the seams. As an alternative to removing and replacing the roof, ***X recommends:
• Remove the center of the trusses at the ridge to allow the installation of a ridge beam. Use a 2-ply 16-in. LVL or a 3½-in. wide by 16-in. tall Timberstrand LSL as a ridge beam. The ridge beam will have to be installed through a hole cut in the left end of the bonus room gable. A 2-ply stud will need to be installed beneath the left end of the beam in the bonus room wall and the construction of the garage door header will need to be evaluated and possibly upgraded. At the right end of the beam, a header constructed of the same material as the beam will be needed on top of the wall plate in the attic to distribute the load beyond the ends of the header at the right end of the bonus room.
• Sister 2x8 rafters to each rafter member of the trusses. Nail vertical and diagonal truss members to the new rafters.
• Install horizontal 2x4 blocking at the horizontal seams in the roof sheathing.
• Install vertical 2x4s from the ceiling joist members of the trusses to the ridge beam.


Additionally, the connection between the two roof lines needs to be properly flashed. Currently there is an open joint through which water can enter the attic at this location.

Please contact me if you have questions.

Yours truly,
******XX

joasis

Time on job site, paid as agreed, would be the only feasable way to procede, since you really have no idea what kind of problems may be exposed as you fix the problems...and firther, since you can't accurately bid, and no one on this board could bid for you, charge the top hourly rate you feel will compensate your time.

I would personally walk away from this one, unless you don't have any other jobs. If the HO wants a "ballpark" number, try working backwards...how long would it take you to build it in the first place? That is the labor, since you may end up exposing stuff that will take you to square one.

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dougchips

Incluse a cause in your proposal in case they take the other contractor to court and you have to go.

Tscarborough

Run away!

LNG24

As professionals, we can't turn our backs on good customers that got shafted. Run Away is not the solution. It is obvious that the homeowner is in need of help. I just posted a pic of a chimney cap problem that I am looking for answers on. That homeowner was ripped of $1,500 by an unlicensed contractor that took the money and never showed back up. I offered them advice on catching that crook and as of yesterday He was Arrested ! Seems he was doing this to many homeowners.

When you are facing a situation where we are trying to correct a problem caused by in experience or simple a crook, we need to protect ourselves and BE SURE the homeownere knows everything. How...PUT IT IN WRITING. And suggest they review the contrat with their attorney or friend to make sure they all know that You Can Not possibly give them a set price and you will report any problems backed up with pictures and a written statement immediatley back to them.

Don't run away from someone who is drowning, just don't jump in to save them blindly. Do your homework, protect yourself and then rescue them.

Now I will admit that some customers are lloking to screw you and those are the ones you RUN FROM

APC

Thanks for all the replies I will try to figure out a price "hourly rate" as joasis suggested.

Brickie

I disagree. This is one job you definitely run away from

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skymaster

APC; IMHO remember that the amount of labor involved in this mess will probably be triple the amount of doing it from scratch. I would consider a PIA charge in there somewhere also, tho that wont be stated.

Shoalsfugro

Cost plus or time and materials, I do agree you will be facing so many hidden problems. Good Luck.

Grumpy

Redo it or run. I wouldn't necessarily run away. I would tell the customer if I am going to do it, I am goign to do it right, thus knocking down all the trusses installing factory built trusses and then sheathing the roof. This way you know you can do it right, and it will be much much easier for you to bid.

If he doesn't want to do it your way then walk, but those are the rules I ALWAYS live by. My way or the highway. If you choose to do it his way, time and material with weekly payouts.

Are H clips code in your area? They are not here, and seldom are used.

APC

I believe code is enforced on spacing over 16"

Unfortunately I was the lowest bid at $5900 but still debating if I should go through with this project. Does anyone have an idea of what to write as a clause in this contract so I am able to protect myself?

Thanks

APC

Any Suggestions?

Thanks

joasis

A bid is not a contract unless proposed and accepted by both parties....I already told you what I would do...and something else.....when I bid, and I have the opportunity to hear the other quotes, and I am the cheapest...I want to know why? What did another contractor see that I didn't?

I think you are in for a ride on this job, and if you bid, and they accept, you wll truly be stuck...best of luck.

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DUSE

Whats the length of the ridge?Whats the pitch?Is there Sheetrock under the joist,or is it just frameing?
Is the bonus room going to be long enough to get entire length of the LVL in it so you can slide it in as the Architect or Engineer suggested (Most of them suck anyway) ?
Would it be eaiser to take the shingles off a foot on both sides and cut the plywood back
Can you come up with pics..

What I dont get is ,,,,,,
Remove the center of the trusses at the ridge to allow the installation of a ridge beam. Use a 2-ply 16-in. LVL or a 3½-in. wide by 16-in. tall Timberstrand LSL as a ridge beam
Whats with the 16" ridge

Nail vertical and diagonal truss members to the new rafters.
Is this his way of saying " put collar ties in"?

Dosent sound that bad
Depending on the size, I see a weeks worth of work,@ $1,500 -$2000 in material, $1000 in labor and $3000 for the company.$500 a day.
Not bad but worth more just because it was someone elses FU.
If I have to fix someone elses FU's...I'm Gettin PAID

tinner666

Is the room 'finished'? Sheet-rocked and taped? Is the gable end finished also? Sounds like you need 2 'temp' walls built under the joists to hold it all in place while 'cutting out and sliding a ridge board in'. I'm not sure that a ridge board will cure anything. Like grumpy said, it almost requires a rebuild.

Just maybe, pulling the sheathing off, and installing 2x6 or 2x8 rafters properly will put the roof on a slightly different 'plane' than the sagged ones. Then attach the sheathing to the new rafters. BUT....... If the rafters 'trusses' are sagging, WHAT is the ceiling doing?? If it's sagging, can it be jacked up and 'truss' attached to the new, correct sized rafters??

I always do these jobs 'open-ended' with a re-appraisal of the project after 'X$$' number of dollars of work have been spent. Time and material rates only.

And I bet I missed a lot of potential problems with my answer without seeing the job!