Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)

 
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Old 09-28-2017, 08:53 PM   #1
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Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


I am not sure what topic this subject belongs, but I think it deserves it's own topic, as I think the building envelope is evolving and people want to pay for it.

Today I started to work with Henry, Blueskin® VP100
Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane. It's a house wrap.

Working with an adhesive backed house wrap has a huge learning curve. For those who hate ice and water shield, run away from adhesive-backed house wraps.

I understand the benefits of the product, which have strict install instructions.

What did I learn my first day working with the product? It's like a cloth, it stretches like a bed sheet. This is very apparent when you remove the film from the adhesive back. The film doesn't remove evenly and such the material doesn't stretch evenly, which equates to wrinkles and give rise for the opportunity for the adhesive to stick to its self.

I did get really good at eliminating stretching and the wrinkles by using a plastic dustpan. To stop the stretching, I used the dust pan to follow the path of the film while I removed it, I applied pressure like every 5 inches, this tacked the house warp, and eliminated the exponential stretching from feet to inches.

We have a 26000 foot home to wrap, I think we did about 100 sf today, I am praying I get over the learning curve.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:24 PM   #2
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Got any pics of this stuff? Definetly doesn't sound like fun....lol. 26,000 sqft home is incredible and would very much like to see it if you've got any pics of that 2. Either way sounds like an interesting product, gl

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Old 09-29-2017, 12:35 AM   #3
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Try cutting it into 12'~ sections
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:07 AM   #4
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


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Got any pics of this stuff? Definetly doesn't sound like fun....lol. 26,000 sqft home is incredible and would very much like to see it if you've got any pics of that 2. Either way sounds like an interesting product, gl

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I'll have some pics of the wrap next week, but there's the house.


Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house wrap.)-img_20170928_093255121_hdr.jpg

Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house wrap.)-img_20170928_093427425_hdr.jpg
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:49 AM   #5
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


I hope you did not spec./ select the product. After reading a post in another thread of problems surfacing with zip wall / roofing,who wants to be the guinea pig ?
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:32 AM   #6
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Quote:
I hope you did not spec./ select the product. After reading a post in another thread of problems surfacing with zip wall / roofing,who wants to be the guinea pig ?
When Dupont was developing their thermawrap. WE were guinea pigs I mean a collaborative commercial entity.

Dupont took on all the risk.

Have done the same in years past with Dow and also with Gougeon Brothers (West System Epoxies).

But I can't imagine what it would be like for a small outfit learning to have stuff like this.

Maybe what we need are shrink-to-fit giant house condoms. Sure seems the be the direction this industry is headed.
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:36 PM   #7
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


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When Dupont was developing their thermawrap. WE were guinea pigs I mean a collaborative commercial entity.

Dupont took on all the risk.

Have done the same in years past with Dow and also with Gougeon Brothers (West System Epoxies).

But I can't imagine what it would be like for a small outfit learning to have stuff like this.

Maybe what we need are shrink-to-fit giant house condoms. Sure seems the be the direction this industry is headed.
My employer even had the install technician come out to the job, to train us. He turned to me and said wow, i can't find any wrinkles, I can't even do that.
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:08 PM   #8
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


My friend lives on the Outer Banks and he used adhesive wrap.
Don't remember what brand, but he did say it was a PITA.

It was only the thought that it would really keep the wall dry in hurricane winds that made him keep going.
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Old 09-30-2017, 09:07 PM   #9
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


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Originally Posted by fjn View Post
I hope you did not spec./ select the product. After reading a post in another thread of problems surfacing with zip wall / roofing,who wants to be the guinea pig ?
Zip wall is crap, and i have never used it, and never will. Framers need to be fast, framing. they care not about anything else and shouldn't. Zip wall forces the framer to think like a roofer.

Last edited by Stilla; 09-30-2017 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 09-30-2017, 09:56 PM   #10
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Quote:
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Zip wall is crap, and i have never used it, and never will. Framers need to be fast, framing. they care not about anything else and shouldn't. Zip wall forces the framer to think like a roofer.
I'm gonna say that as a Framer and a Roofer that no framer thinks like a Roofer (myself excluded). Every new construction I do I spend all day cursing the framer.

I'd prefer to roof a zipwalled house (, never shingled the roof zip sheeted) because it's easier and faster to run the tape over my flashing than it is messing with the housewrap
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Old 09-30-2017, 09:59 PM   #11
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Quote:
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Zip wall is crap, and i have never used it, and never will. Framers need to be fast, framing. they care not about anything else and shouldn't. Zip wall forces the framer to think like a roofer.


I hope I never have someone on my job that doesn’t think about the previous and all of the following trades.

Why is zip sheathing crap?
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:15 PM   #12
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


I've seen the blue skin around for quite awhile now. I've never used it. I hope you started air sealing before the sheathing went up. You'll get much better results.

While I'm not a huge fan of zipwall and roof it does have its advantages. And I'd like to know why you think it is crap
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Old 10-01-2017, 08:49 AM   #13
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Framers typically turn the sheathing into swiss cheese. The nails penetrate too deep and they use more nails than are needed. All the benefits of zip sheathing are lost, unless you tape the entire home every 16 inches.

Give a framer something like tyvek , and the staple hammer becomes a toy, where i swear they are trying to make as many holes as they can.

People just don't understand why the industry are creating these products. In zip sheathing it very important that the head of the nail is seated like a drywall screw, or like driving a roofing nail into a shingle.

Its crap because it forces the carpenter to be more thoughtful, it slows down the framing process.

The industry is introducing words like, thermal bridging, to the masses. Where every nail, in the sheathing does have an impact.

It should not be the framers responsibility to deal with the envelope, which is what zip sheathing is doing. If there is a failure, you are taking your framer to court?

Last edited by Stilla; 10-01-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 10-01-2017, 11:33 AM   #14
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Oh. You have bad framers. Now I get it.


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Old 10-01-2017, 11:50 AM   #15
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


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I hope I never have someone on my job that doesn’t think about the previous and all of the following trades.

Now there is a true statement .


It actually has even farther reaching ramifications. For example when a tradesman places their material upon the work of others,in some States,construction laws can hold them accountable for problems that were obvious prior to their installation. A good example,building upon a out of level and square foundation. Hanging sheet rock on metal studs not screwed off properly etc.
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Old 10-01-2017, 11:59 AM   #16
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


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Framers typically turn the sheathing into swiss cheese. The nails penetrate too deep and they use more nails than are needed. All the benefits of zip sheathing are lost, unless you tape the entire home every 16 inches.

If the monkeys with the machine guns (framers) are over driving fasteners,someone needs to call them out on that and hold their feet to the fire. It reduces panel strength and is a code violation. Not cover the sins with tape,house wrap or fly paper for that matter. If that is going on,where is the supervision,asleep at the wheel ?

To build a 26,000 sq.ft. plywood palace and have that go on is unconscionable. They should tie a can on the super and run him off the job site.
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Old 10-01-2017, 12:12 PM   #17
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


We got that product on on house we were siding and sent it back.. There is on need for peel&stick on the walls of the house. Very labor intensive.
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Old 10-01-2017, 01:21 PM   #18
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilla View Post
Framers typically turn the sheathing into swiss cheese. The nails penetrate too deep and they use more nails than are needed. All the benefits of zip sheathing are lost, unless you tape the entire home every 16 inches.

Give a framer something like tyvek , and the staple hammer becomes a toy, where i swear they are trying to make as many holes as they can.

People just don't understand why the industry are creating these products. In zip sheathing it very important that the head of the nail is seated like a drywall screw, or like driving a roofing nail into a shingle.

Its crap because it forces the carpenter to be more thoughtful, it slows down the framing process.

The industry is introducing words like, thermal bridging, to the masses. Where every nail, in the sheathing does have an impact.

It should not be the framers responsibility to deal with the envelope, which is what zip sheathing is doing. If there is a failure, you are taking your framer to court?
I agree,as a sider I can provide a decent drainage plane behind my siding but it's virtually impossible for me to make it an air barrier too after framing

there should be an ''envelope'' trade that can keep up with all the new info and products coming out..i can't anymore and I don't need the resposibility

my work for the few builders I work for nowadays does not include the wrb,either they can do it or i pass
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:12 PM   #19
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


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It should not be the framers responsibility to deal with the envelope, which is what zip sheathing is doing. If there is a failure, you are taking your framer to court?

There will be a lot more people dragging the framers to court than the builders. As crazy as it is,a contractor can be held liable for a product failure that was specified by others and part of his contract. Does no one remember the fiasco in late '70,s early '80,s with contractors being sued for the failure of fire retardant sheeting on roofs. They were told to install it,it failed,they got sued.
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:16 PM   #20
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Re: Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house Wrap.)


Sometimes,when you strap on a tool belt,you simultaneously strap a target on your back.


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