Painting Subs - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Kuba · 06-08-2009, 08:04 AM

I have worked under a company that did new construction, but Ive never been on the business side of subcontracting.

I was wondering if any of you Subs/GCs might have some information to share (The dos, donts, must knows, process etc, typical contract formalities etc)

Is it normal to treat this contract similar to a Consumer or Commercial entity? What are some of the details involved in this form of contracting that don’t exist with consumer/commercial painting? What do GCs expect to see in a contract other than the obvious – price, scope of word etc? Could someone elaborate on the typical format and concerns regarding subcontracting terms and conditions involved?

Like I said, I have never been a sub before and this concept is 100% new to me. Any info and/or tips would be greatly appreciated. This GC seems very legit and pays cash timely. (That is coming from his electrical sub that is referring me…)

This might be a nice gig for me.. so, with that being said… Educate me guys =)

Thanks in advance

Darwin · 06-08-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuba

I have worked under a company that did new construction, but Ive never been on the business side of subcontracting.

I was wondering if any of you Subs/GCs might have some information to share (The dos, donts, must knows, process etc, typical contract formalities etc)

Is it normal to treat this contract similar to a Consumer or Commercial entity? What are some of the details involved in this form of contracting that don’t exist with consumer/commercial painting? What do GCs expect to see in a contract other than the obvious – price, scope of word etc? Could someone elaborate on the typical format and concerns regarding subcontracting terms and conditions involved?

Payment Schedule--make sure you get paid at specific times stated in the contract--no matter what

Darwin · 06-08-2009, 08:22 AM

Also, if working as GC, make sure subs sign lein waiver when you pay them

Kuba · 06-08-2009, 08:52 AM

Why would a sub sign a lien waver when paid? Are you refering to completion of work then have the sub sign a lien waver?

Doesnt make sense if you are jumping from one job to the next for the same GC.. By signing that lien waver after getting paid the first time could screw you on the next home? I asume it is property dependant - per house etc? Sounds like to much paperwork lol...

You guys file mechanics liens yourself or through your lawyer? Im reading about it now, another thing i have never had to do (thank god)

Is it safe to say that on a sub pay schedule you should be paid by phase like a commercial job?

I dont think i would ever sign a lien waver unless it was site dependant and i was paid in full.

RCPainting · 06-08-2009, 09:19 AM

Working for GC's can be a great opportunity if there is good communication and expectations are clear.

Payment Schedule
Make sure it is clear. Some can be 30 day, some upon completion.
Sometimes the checks are cut straight from the bank on a schedule, make sure you know when that is.

Lein Wavers
Most of them are printed on the back of the check. Some of the GC's I work for cut the check from their account and have a simple release of lein form. You might check your states requirements. My state has the forms on the Licensing site.

When you get your paint, have store set separate job accounts for each builder/project.
Make sure you specify how much touch up time and the charges for trade damage. You can backcharge other trades.
You may want to include something about availability of water, power, dumpster and portapotty. I have never had a problem with that though.
Since you have done NC, you know the procedure is different than redos. To make it work you have to be efficient and flexible working around other trades.
We spray a lot so we make it clear we need the house clear for the time it takes to spray. We actually prefer NC, have been very fortunate to work with some great GC's

Here is a sample contract.

Kuba · 06-08-2009, 02:50 PM

Thanks RC.. Yeah, Ive never done a Spec or PS with any trades on site.. I usually went in masked out, preped and shot in 1 day, and then finished the trim up the next day.. day 3 was just punch, day 4 was re punch b/c of carpet/tile guys would fk stuff up.

I got different feedback on the lien waver.. Someone had mentioned that a lot if not most GC's make you sign it before you work... Um, i really dont like that idea. Id prefer to just paint each spec as if it was a regular cunsumer agreement. I honesty dont see why anyone, any trade, would put their head out to get chopped off like that.

Thats no different than a customer telling me they want a full exterior job, not going to pay me a deposit, and hey mind signing this lien waver too...

FK that...

DavidNTX · 06-08-2009, 04:32 PM

You only sign a waiver for the amount received on a particular property and it is property dependant. The owner should require these lien wavers for the GC to get payment so the homeowner will be protected from the GC not paying the subs.

Normally a lawyer will file a lien for you. They can be pretty tricky to perfect. The fact that the term used is "perfecting a lien" indicates all of the i's need to be dotted and the t's crossed. Once you understand the liens then you might be able to do them yourself. Just remember that the mechanics lien is the last hope of you getting paid. If it isn't done perfectly then you lose this last hope.

If you are going to be doing larger jobs then I would suggest opening job accounts with your material suppliers. This will accomplish 2 things. It will keep your shop account "clean" for the small incidentals that may come up each month and the smaller jobs but most importanly, material suppliers usually have a team of lawyers that will protect the interest of their company. If they ever have to get involved then you can bet you will be needing to do the same thing. If it ever comes down to not getting paid, chances are the material supplier will get his money. If you happen to wind up getting screwed one day then you won't have a big material bill waiting to be paid too. Material suppliers are unbiased when it comes to your customer. Their main concerne will be to get paid and do not have a need to show good will to your customer, the GC.

Kuba · 06-09-2009, 09:51 PM

Thanks so much guys... Great advice Dave, thanks!

RumseySupply · 07-14-2009, 04:38 PM

Also make sure you have some good wording concerning insurance and liability. Try and get a cap on your liability, the total contract value is a generally good cap I have dealt with.

Also make sure you

mention something about a change order process that involves signatures, you want to make sure to get paid for the "little things" and not fall victim to scope creep.

Address liquidated damages, you do not want these to apply to you.

To make it simple try and think of some common misunderstandings that can have an adverse affect on your business or relationship with the GC and use your T+C's to avoid them ahead of time.