Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

opening a wall in a commercial site

3K views 22 replies 7 participants last post by  detroit687 
#1 ·
I'm looking at opening a wall in a commercial site that has 18' ceilings and the partition in question is 6" steel studs. The desired opening width is 20' at a height of 10', therefore, ~8' of wall left above the opening. 5/8" FC on each side.

Roof span is all steel, so the partition is non-load bearing and connected to a main roof truss, but probably not designed to 'hang' from it.

When creating headers for something like this, is there a best practice of using wood and building it out to be the proper width or would you build up with larger steel framing members? In all my experience with steel studs in commercial settings, it's all been non-bearing partitions and all headers used the same steel channel as the base.
 
#3 ·
No wood
what type of frames?
Are you you kicking it to the bar joists?
Are you fastening to the deck or to the bottom of the bar joists?
Are these headers for doors?
You make a header from track and you fold ears or put clips
If it structural load bearing or spanning a large area with heavy large doors you use a box beam header
 
#4 ·
No plans, engineering or specs?

Around here a 3 1/2" x 12 Glu-Lam will span a 18-20" residential garage opening, whether it;s a gable or bearing.

Now since you are basically building a curtain wall, your biggest concern will be the dead load the header will carry. 8' high of 2x6 wall rocked on both sides ain't gonna blow away ina strong breeze.:whistling

I don't advocate internet engineering & certainly don't have a wet stamp & also have not seen your site conditions, plans or engineering.

With the given info IMO use a 6 1/2" x12" Glu-Lam, 3 2x trimmers or a 4x & some hardware....:thumbsup:

Let the thrashing begin...:thumbup:
 
#5 ·
griz said:
No plans, engineering or specs?

Around here a 3 1/2" x 12 Glu-Lam will span a 18-20" residential garage opening, whether it;s a gable or bearing.

Now since you are basically building a curtain wall, your biggest concern will be the dead load the header will carry. 8' high of 2x6 wall rocked on both sides ain't gonna blow away ina strong breeze.:whistling

I don't advocate internet engineering & certainly don't have a wet stamp & also have not seen your site conditions, plans or engineering.

With the given info IMO use a 6 1/2" x12" Glu-Lam, 3 2x trimmers or a 4x & some hardware....:thumbsup:

Let the thrashing begin...:thumbup:
Are glue lams fire rated?
 
#9 ·
I certainly would not refer to your experience as inferior...maybe not as worldly...:whistling:laughing::laughing:

If the Glu-Lam is rocked like the rest of the wall, & the wall has the appropriate fire rating, why would the Glu-Lam need a separate surface treatment? Now if it were left expose, it's a different situation.
 
#8 ·
interesting point about fire rated lumber...I bought a mess of lumber leftover from a church job a long time ago that had been treated, a local source would buy the lumber from the yard, treat it then send it out to the commercial jobs. What is the criteria for using fire treated lumber--such as, is it required for large meeting areas, malls, strip malls, ???

this situation would be all dead weight of the 8' wall above-no hanging doors. The upper wall is already connected to the bar joists, but I'm not sure how they are attached....and would want to confirm they are properly connected. If I had absolute faith in the attachment to the bar joist, it would seem a typical header track would be sufficient.
 
#18 ·
interesting point about fire rated lumber...What is the criteria for using fire treated lumber--such as, is it required for large meeting areas, malls, strip malls, ???
Your local Fire Codes, bldg type/construction, use & occupancy ratings generally will dictate the types of materials required to meet fir rated assemblies.

Why if you already framing with metal would you switch to wood just for the header?

And then add another piece of track for the cripples?
Just the way it was drawn...I just built it...didn't design it:no:
 
#10 ·
griz said:
I certainly would not refer to your experience as inferior...maybe not as worldly...:whistling:laughing::laughing:

If the Glu-Lam is rocked like the rest of the wall, & the wall has the appropriate fire rating, why would the Glu-Lam need a separate surface treatment? Now if it were left expose, it's a different situation.
Why do they make us buy fire rated studs for door blocking? I even had one specd at double 3/4 fire rated plywood. I see what your saying about the drywall, but wouldnt the wood be more likely to flash ignite verses a rated stud or metal counterpart?
 
#13 ·
detroit687 said:
Why if you already framing with metal would you switch to wood just for the header?

And then add another piece of track for the cripples?
Ease of installation? Cost if material? Less drywall work. Your probably right. Im only like 10% commercial.
 
#15 ·
griz said:
I can't recall needing fire rated lumber in a wall where the door jambs were also fire rated.

Perhaps you work in an area that has weirder codes than California...

Boy that would be a first...:thumbup::whistling
Maybe Im reading this crap wrong. After 3+ hrs of flipping through the prints my head starts hurting, and I remember how easy basement finishing is, and then I get one of those to complain about..
 
#16 ·
griz said:
I can't recall needing fire rated lumber in a wall where the door jambs were also fire rated.

Perhaps you work in an area that has weirder codes than California...

Boy that would be a first...:thumbup::whistling
I have had jobs that the shims behind the hinges had to be rated
No wood
Smoke walls
No use for wood framing in commercial anymore
 
#17 ·
detroit687 said:
I have had jobs that the shims behind the hinges had to be rated
No wood
Smoke walls
No use for wood framing in commercial anymore
Some of those metal framed buildings are amazing looking. Is that what you do?
 
#21 ·
In my area, any wood framing in commercial needs to be firerated.that includes backing for handicap rails, door bumpers,and any hanging shelves.
For your application, can you use black iron in the existing metal studs? This is our typical installation. It is also always on the print. If we have a particulary heavy curtain wall, we will add wood to the bottom of the opening and run threaded rod up to the joists.
After all that, probably safest to consult the architect and lay it on him. Get a R.F.I. so you have it in writing.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top