Old House Syndrome

yardsetc

hey everyone-happy holidays-wet enough?
a simple tear off of old roof (house dates back to 250+years) lead to total tear down of shed /porch addition (everything but floor (only about 3 ft area needs replacement) anyway, reframing with 2x6 wall (for better insulation, and structural support ) and 2x8 for roof framing (more insulation) my questions are about sheathing-besides codes...

1-what is everyone's suggestion on roofing sheathing? eventually, either standing seam roof or prefab metal roofing. about 650s/f in total

2-what about exxterior wall sheathing? it's only 8ft tall but faces north, open to about 90 acreas of farm land (no, not mine) so we want to button her up very well-applying fiber cement siding/planking for finish-
this is my second house renovation/first was more cosmetic, only 90 years old- thanks-samnj

maj

and your question is?.........

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yardsetc

sorry, maybe it wasn't clear
1-what are the pros suggestions on roofing sheathing? material used?

2-what are the pros suggestions on wall sheathing? material used? i've been seeing a lot of new homes w/osb for roof sheathing, and I'm not sure I want to do that. concerned about any leaks getting in and boards swelling-thanks again

maj

1 - 5/8" OSB
2 - 7/16" OSB

If the roof is leaking, you have other issues than swelling OSB!!!!

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joasis

Depending on the type of metal roof you will install, you don't neccessarily have to install any decking. On new homes, with metal panel roofs, I do not install decking, but rather I use 2Xs for purlin to attach the panels to, and I place vinyl back insulation under the metal. It isn't tradition, but it works. The principal reason for decking a roof is for composition roofing.

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maj

Just a ?.... Does'nt the sheathing help quiet the metal roof for when it rains or hails?

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supercrew

im far from an engineer, but 95% of the houses i have framed, both walls and roofs was sheeted with 1/2-7/16 obs.....i "think" the color of the edge signifies where its applied.....ie: blue edge for walls....yellow for the roof.. ...i've heard(never experienced)3/4 t&g on 24" centers truss roofs.....

as far as water getting to the wood....unless you live in the desert any material you use "might" see water....on complex roofs (hips or valleys) we try to frame it completely and then go to town on sheeting it...just so our sheeting sees minimal exposure before the shinglers show up.....then if you see leaks, find a new roofer

your rafter/truss layout also factors in....if you land on a oddball layout youd be required to cut the sheet....thus eliminating the "factory" paint/sealer.....

as far as fastening....im a diehard 8d ring shank nail vs staples.....walls and roof......just the training there i guess...

there are way more experienced guys that hang out here so dont go taking my opinion as gospel..........im just killing sometime and learnin.....and trying to get my post count up....

maj

Actually sup (may I call you sup?), the color of the edge only means the color they had in the machine that day. I have gotten three different colors of the same thickness on the same day before. It may also be different plants using certain colors.

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joasis

The 3 inch vinyl back or the foil back double bubble insulation keeps the roof quiet Mark. And even if the insulation wasn't there, you still have the ceiling insulation. When we install metal roofs where shakes come off, we do not even lay felt...just metal right to the strapping.
I love tradition, but I like change in construction..and the spec homes I build, I don't even truss on 24's, I wills et heavy engineered trusses as far as 8 feet and purlin on edge between the trusses on 3's, and ceiling joist with 2X4' on edge between the bottom chords on 24. Saves money, and makes a better roof...of course, it will never get shingles either and drives building inspectors nuts.

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cssconstruct

Jay,

Isn't that why we were put on this earth.

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yardsetc

thanks for your input
-as for the water leaks, since I'm doing most the work myself, and seeing how quickly I'm doing it, I'm just trying to take some precautions.
-since we're (spouse) and I are not sure which roof we are going to use just yet, I'm still going with the sheathing, just in case-
-I have seen other colors on the edges as well, so that did add to my confusion-thanks everyone-

joasis

Well css, I did beat an inspector in depositions when he tried to stop me from doing one home like this...and my lawyer asked him about his engineering background, and expertise with engineering...and he folded like a busted accordian. Since then, inspectors avoid me since I have a "name" that I will sue if they red tag me. Since my community "contracts" the inspector position, their butt is hanging out there if they make a bad call. Funny thing is, the state inspectors like my style of construction, since when they asked, I readliy let them see the specs on the trusses we use in this aplication.

I can't tell you many times I have heard it from traditional contractors about my shoddy practices...but I'm building houses and they ain't. They also think ICF homes are a fad and will never replace stick built....what will they say when they run into the panelized construction of the future?

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cssconstruct

They are fighting panelized homes here also. It has taken quite a few years and advertising for something as simple as poured wall foundations to catch on. I think though that in the future new ideas will catch on faster, although maybe not with the inspectors. I use a new house wrap that comes with moldblocking agent and a warranty against mold, but the county inspector wanted a hold harmless letter because it wasn't Tyvek. I can't wait for my next Rough-in inspection when he doesn't see felt on the roof because we are using the new system that does not require it.

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supercrew

interesting concept joasis....anyway to post one of your roof plans????and your just talkin about a metal roof right?????and what span are you talking about in your ceiling with 2x4???....what i was taught(over buildin) was a board could only carry "itself" (no laod) as many feet as its width....example...2x4 would only span 4'....

maj.....i perfer charlie but sup is faster.....
dam GC lied to me.....i had 2 separate bunks of osb....started using one color to sheet the walls(ignorance)???????.....he went totally ballistic.....gave me the speech bout the different colors meanin application.....cant remember the whole conversation but something like.....(6' 250# guy yellin)..."are you totally friggin clueless......that color has lines running 8', that color has lines running 4' and the other color has lines running 4&8'....get with the program...."......he seemed smart.......

joasis

A 2x4 will cary way more then it's own weight in 4 feet. I have heard a lot of addages, but missed that one.

On the last spec we built, a friend, whod didn't and still doesn't like my framing style was giving me the business about loading on 2X's, and since he weighs 250 lbs, I had him jump and grab a ceiling joist, and see how much deflection he actuall could get....1/4 inch...and he was in a "worst case load point".

If we span a 40 foot distance with a truss designed for our application, we specify the roof load and snow load...which metal roofing runs a pound a sq/ft, and snow loads here are 10 lbs. Since this falls well within the 20 lb dead load they use, we are way good. I look at this as being creative....others look at it like it is ok for a barn roof, but never a home....ever heard of timber framing?

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supercrew

i was never questioning the integrity of you...just asking about something ive never done/seen.....all the while seeing if i can fit some of your practices with mine....and it wasnt about the trusses(engineered trusses escape my realm of knowledge)

i see the point in 250#'s at 1 point compared to spread out over 48+sq ft.....but like i said i was taught to over build...for instance.....if a 2x4 will work....use a 2x6....i go thru this almost daily with my GC....

if timber framing = cutting your own rafters/ridges, hip/valley rafters and ceiling joist then YES....thats what i cut my teeth on....i would say...that i have built more than 3x's the hips/valleys by hand than 90% of the union carpenters in my area have done with trusses........

im not tryin to say im some expert here...but comparin a stick built roof to an engineered roof is like apples and oranges to me....(im still lost on the fact that they put a board in the center of a room for an upright to support the roof)

i was tought to build the ceiling(2x6 minimum),run a 2x4 across the greatest span....creating a "ratrun" then place a 2x8 next to it standing upright...creating a stiffback....next we would do the same in the center of the rafter span(from ridge to topplate)....from there we would add uprights above any wall we could to the bottom of the rafter stiffback....creating a roof/ceiling that would NEVER sag

like i said...im in the st louis county area now and it seems GC's love enginered....
im just looking to cut my time but not my quality....i love to throw new ideas at my GC....makes HIM think....

and did i mention my 2 quacker parrots????LMAO.....

R&S Exteriors

Joasis is right on. Most house in my area that get, or have, metal roofs do not have decking installed. My house is over 100 years old and it has a metal roof that is at least 75 years old. There is no decking. If you go up in the attic you see the underside of the metal (looks great). I think it actually helps having the free flow of air. I never have condensation on the underside.

(IMO) Even if you put decking boards on you should go over top of that with 2X's for purlin to attach the metal to for two reasons. (1) ventalation on the bottom side of the metal. (2) I like the idea of those big sheets of metal being attached to something other than just OSB.

I have no problem with noise. Of course it is a double planked house with actual 2X12 for ceiling joists.