New Garage Questions

oldgoat

I am wanting to have a new garage built and have questions about the concrete flooring and siding. Most use a slab floor, but I don't like it that well because the siding is so close to the ground that after a little while it seems like most of them start to rot and look like heck. Is having a stemwall that much more expensive so that it has some room to get it off the ground and also the 12 in. siding I was wondering about using something like 4 X 8 masonite panels. At least then if the bottom starts to swell and rot I can cut it off and patch in a new piece. Or is there a fairly simple way of removing the bottom row?

gap

The ones that don't swell and rot are probably the ones that someone took the time to prime/seal the bottom edge and alittle way up the back side of the panel/siding before nailing it up.

Cole

http://www.jameshardie.com/

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Grumpy

Most garages are built as cheapely as possible using the lowest grade lumber allowed by code and cutting as many corners as possible. At least that's how the large builders around here do 'em. A few years ago I thought about getting into garage building but decided against it because I am not the kind of guy who likes to cut corners as a practice and there is absolutely no way I could do a garage for as cheapely as the large garage builders do it.

The point is around here there is a mentality that "It's just a garage!" I hear those words being spoken all the time and I can agree to a point.

Well after I had a chance to vent my frustration about "budget" garage builders I can say there is an easy and cheap solution to footer rot. Install an aluminum "sill" flashing. This will prevent the water and snow from backing up and rotting the footer of the framing.

In addition always install tyvek. I know around here it's not code on garages so it's almost always not done as part of the job. The sill flashing is almost never done on garages especially new ones.

Flimmer

Hey Old goat, I am an estimator for one of those large framing builders that Grumpy is speaking of, although we do not practice the cheap building practices he speaks of.. As a matter of fact we are almost always more expensive and have to compete against the very contractors he mentions. I live in the northern part of the country and of course we have all kinds of weather to deal with. I am not a huge fan of curbs or courses of block on the perimeter edge of your slab. The main reason is we live in an area where it freezes every year which in turn of course creates that dreaded frost that can reak havoc on your foundation.. I always recommend to my clients to go without the curb or block and properly landscape the area around your new garage.

The biggest problem I see is after we build a garage for our customers, is most will backfill right up to the top edge of the slab floor not thinking about the fact that grass will grow, and of course holds moisture which in turn causes future problems that you mention. Keep your backfill down from the top of the slab at least 2-3 inches and then make sure you slope the fill away from the garage so any rain flows away.

The other reason we recommend against block is it almost always cracks from the shifting and heaving caused by the frost. The stud wall is flexible and more forgiving. If you live in an area like this I would also recommend that you place #4 rebar throughout the slab crossed and tied at least 2' o/c. This is much better than 6-6-10 wire mesh.

Good Luck with your new garage.

Flimmer

Cole

Great post, welcome to the forum.

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Flimmer

I have really enjoyed this site and all the great info all you guys have so kindly shared... I believe that the experiances you guys and gals have shared is more valuable than any book could be! Please keep it coming, it is helping me to learn some valuable information and to achieve my future business goals..

Thanks, Flimmer

nadonailer

Stemwalls are more expensive but worth it! Last garage I built (10'x20') cost
25k but thats in SoCal with all the darn code restrictions etc...
Then plywood shear and stucco, and you're done...

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Joe Carola

Oldgoat,

I'm from New Jersey and it gets very cold here. Put a row of block and keep the wood off the ground. It's that simple. Every garage I've ever built has at least one course of block and we never have problems with it. There's no reason to do any extra work because of the wood being so low to grade.

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Flimmer

Hey joe, I have this same conversation with alot my customers and I just like to let them know that the potential for frost heave and cracked block is very high... Some people don't ever have this problem but in my opinion it all depends on what type of soil you have under your base to put this on. I have a high concentration of clay where I live and I'm thankful that I did not go with block.. My garage shifts almost an inch up and down every spring as the frost is coming out of the ground, Just imagine if I would have had block.. Then I have customers that have a nice sandy loam and they don't have one crack in there slab or block. Just depends on the area you live in.. So to say just go with block might be the wrong advice.

Oldgoat, What I would do is find out what type of soil you have in your area and also go chat with the neighbors and see what their slabs look like, ask what they did, this can help you make the right decision..

Just my opinion

Joe Carola

Flimmer,

I don't understand the problems you are talking about because when we build a garage the footings are the same as a house with at least 4' below grade and the frost line with a footing and continuous block sitting on top of the footing all the way up with a minimum of one course of block. Sometimes two or three courses and the slab is poured inside the block.

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Flimmer

If your talking about a frost footing, then forget everything I just said, that is the absolute best way to go, but also alot more expensive than a floating slab. I was under the impression that oldgoat was thinking of a floating slab with a course of block fixed to the slab. This is where the problem of the block cracking comes in.. I guess we were not on the same page.. I would definately say go with the frost footing if you don't mind spending the extra money.. Like grumpy said, most people think a garage is just a garage and aren't willing to spend the extra money...

Sorry about the misunderstanding, Flimmer

TimNJ

Flimmer, how is the bldg dept around you letting garages get built with no foundations? Here in NJ, you can't even have a shed built on a slab once it goes over a certain sq ft. A slab with a course of block around the perimeter?? I have some property in baja and they certainly don't worry about frost (or even bldg insp) down there yet they don't even build on just a slab.

Flimmer

A floating slab with a 10"x12" wide thickened edge around the perimeter is all you need for accessory structures. If this was a home to live in you can also use the same slab but it needs to have high density foam under the slab as well as 4' out around the structure.. Most people that do this will put heat in the slab.. building code feels this is enough to ensure that the frost will not get under the slab. I don't enforce or write the rules I just have to follow them.

oldgoat

Read through the replies and got some ideas. They are pouring a footing and a slab. So the floor is suppose to be 4 to 5 in. above the ground level when they get done. Went ahead and decided to spend extra on vinyl siding and wrapping everything so that there shouldn't be any maint. to do on the outside and 9ft walls instead of the reg 8ft. They aren't wrapping it though and I was a little concerned about that, but since it isn't needed per code left it alone. Since I spent the extra on the siding I'm rethinking the heating situation. Am going to look at the ventless heaters (blue flame I think they call them) or the regular heaters (Reznor) found in most garages around here.
http://www.nbmc.com/reddy/garage.html

Flimmer

Are they pouring a footing 4' down and then the slab(frost footing?)..

Just curious because this is usually alot more expensive.

If your heating the garage, why will they not put the house wrap under the vinyl. Pretty inexpensive part and seems odd that they are not doing this.. I would insist on this, especially if you plan to keep it heated constantly.

Just my opinion, Flimmer.