Ideas For A Foundation And Framing

D.A.S.Anthony

Here is the dilemma.....

We have a customer who would like to build a 1,200.00sq ft horse barn. Sounds easy enough. The problem is they do not have the setbacks and wetlands/zoning approvals to put in a foundation.

The customer now would like to build this barn without a foundation. The barn is roughly 24X40' and does have a second floor loft for hay storage etc. Total height is 23' and has a continuous ridge front to back 40'. The ridge is sopposed to have (2) support posts (from ridge down to slab/pier) set a third in from each gable end. More info....

2X6 walls
2x10 joists (24") on center
2x12 rafters (24") on center
cedar shake roof
4x4 cupola
about 10 windows.

Hopefully you can all get a image of the barn and it's weight from the above specs. Yes we had an architect and engineer design this back when the HO was first thinking of doing it. Now that we can not get past zoning they recommended a pre-fab. I still would like to build this barn as per the specs without a foundation. Any thoughts? Can I build this on gravel? (I have never done that before) Would just sonotubes work at load points? (The town would allow this)

I need to go to both the architect and engineer with some good ideas!

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Anthony
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www.dasassociates.com Building from Greenwich to Fairfield and Westchester Counties.

jmic

That's referred to as a Pole Barn. Done all the time, no problem.

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___"Remember You Never Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression"______________________
Joe

D.A.S.Anthony

Pole Barn, i looked into that. It looked like the best possibility.

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Anthony
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www.dasassociates.com Building from Greenwich to Fairfield and Westchester Counties.

odellconstruct

http://www.sonotube.com/products/tubebase.html

maybe tubes and bases ? 12 " sonotubes

jmic

Look at Morton Buildings ( pole barns), You'd never know looking at them that there's no foundation. Very attractive.

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___"Remember You Never Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression"______________________
Joe

D.A.S.Anthony

Thanks for the info. Morton's looks very good. Have you worked with them before?

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Anthony
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www.dasassociates.com Building from Greenwich to Fairfield and Westchester Counties.

jmic

Yep, did site work for a horse farm in New Preston years ago. They did a big building probably like 60 x 140 or so. Came out nice.

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___"Remember You Never Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression"______________________
Joe

A W Smith

Ive never seen a pole barn like this before,
it was built in 99 for an ex client of mine who owned a ton of investment property and "cashed in" . originally he paid 120K for this farm which includes a lake. if I recall the barn cost him 270K. Its a pole barn. no huge timbers. everything is built up/laminated together out of framing lumber. treated triple 2X6 for the poles. They drilled holes in the dirt four feet down, inserted the triple two by six poles and compacted dry concrete mix around it. They built off the poles with microlams bolted to the sides of the posts. Rafters are 2X10 on 2 foot centers. Girts are 2X6 about 2 feet to 32 inches apart if i recall. the structure is really very simple. you can see some of the structural detail in the photo of the hay loft with the speed bag. The interior finish work and detailing is amazing though. As is the nice pine siding. I can swear i took a picture up the ladder to the copula which had a bell salvaged from a schoolhouse in it. But I cant find that pic. It was built by a company called "Hold Your Horses" out of the colts neck freehold, Monmouth county area. They branched out from being a fence company to this. I can no longer find a listing for them though.




this is the loft with the maple floor, a home school classroom,





here's more pictures of that pole barn



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...55/Mar2922.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...55/Mar2931.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...55/Mar2933.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...55/Mar2934.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...55/Mar2935.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...55/Mar2936.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...55/Mar2937.jpg

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Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

WarnerConstInc.

That barn is cool, did they live in part of it or was it just for whatever space?

A W Smith

No they only finished the saddle room, which in on the ground level and starts where the porch ends, and the second floor classroom starts at the right wall of that dormer under the bell cupola to the gable wall on the left, the trophy shelf in one of those linked pictures is a view through the glass overlooking the saddle room from that finished classroom space above. Everything on the second lever to the right of that right side gable wall is an unfinished hay loft. All horse stables on either side ending at the saddle room. at the time I took those photos they had yet to complete a bathroom on the far left front corner next to the saddle room.

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Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

D.A.S.Anthony

A.W. Great Pics! Great work! Beautiful barn.

After looking into the pole barn and running the ideas by all parties involved customer has decided to go ahead with the pole barn construction. Turned into a really nice job for us. Thanks.

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Anthony
_____________________________
www.dasassociates.com Building from Greenwich to Fairfield and Westchester Counties.

jmic

Great.........don't mention it.

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___"Remember You Never Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression"______________________
Joe

D.A.S.Anthony

Yeah thanks JMIC. Actually next week I may call Morton's. I will keep you posted if I do so I can let them know I got the recommendation from your company. It never hurts.

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Anthony
_____________________________
www.dasassociates.com Building from Greenwich to Fairfield and Westchester Counties.

modterry

What am I missing here? If you don't have the setbacks and zoning won't allow a Pole Barn how in the heck do you think you can build a different kind of structure. Out where we are even temporary buildings count and have to be inside setbacks and bulk planes.

T

D.A.S.Anthony

I never said they would not allow a pole barn. What they would not allow was a full foundation. The barn is actually within setbacks from the street. Just not from his other lots.

As for the temporary structure issue, I did say setbacks, I should have said lot lines, (same idea) The customer owns the adjacent lots to his left, right, and behind his house. He is in the process of getting some lot line revisions so that he can build several buildings in and around all 4 of his properties without combining any of the lots. In the meantime his wife wants a barn! has to have a barn! and needs it now! So he is willing to build the barn, hope to get the lot line revisions to make it all 100% legal.

Best case scenario,
he gets the lot line revisions, keeps all 4 lots seperated and all structures within their individual lots and setbacks. He also gets a beautiful barn that will oulast his life.

Worst case scenario,
he cannot get the lot line revisions, the town allows a pole barn, because they are calling that a "temporary/accesory structure". If and when he ever sells the house the barn will have to be moved or removed.

He is ok with this because he is never going to sell the properties, basically he is just using the 4 seperate lots as a better tax deduction than owning 1 lot.

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Anthony
_____________________________
www.dasassociates.com Building from Greenwich to Fairfield and Westchester Counties.

Winchester

Is that a canvas punching bag? man those tyhings tear up the knuckles good

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Ryan

A W Smith

he was sort of a body builder gymnast wrestling/bodybuilder coach boxing dude. he uses gloves on that bag. His Gym used to be in a chicken coop we fixed up on another part of the farm. When i first met the guy 20 or so years ago he was pumped up and had a bit of an "edge" to his personality. I worked on all his investment properties which were many. He has since mellowed, married his long time girlfriend, had a couple daughters, got into horses for his daughters, had lost a lot of bulk. And since those pictures were taken he has divorced and I think lost the farm to his ex. which is karma since his own brother/partner lost his half of the farm when his brother quit claimed because of HIS OWN divorce. A farm they paid less than 200K for in the eighties. Saw him about two years ago at a local diner, alone. A shell of his former self. Not so quick to wisecrack and poke jabs at me or everyone else for that matter.


heres the plot of the farm, the long side property line is over 1500 feet, The barn is that tiny square about the middle of the long lot line to the east. the big square is the horse jump corral or excersize whatever ya call it. and yes thats a man made stocked fishing pond to the south

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...1955/bobas.jpg

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Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

dlcj

yep. Pole barn. Around here if a barn is built of wood, its a pole barn.It may or may not have a slab or floor at all. If its steel, it has steel i-beam post bolted down to a thickend edge slab. Still not a true foundation. Ive built a few wood pole barns using round utility poles, 6x6s, or 8x8 square poles. Never done the laminated 2xs before but i have seen it. Some dont even use concrete just 4 or 5 foot deep hole and compact in pea gravel like a fence post. Done a couple carports like that too. It works fine and saves alot of money. My dads house is sitting 8' off the ground on utility poles buried 4' deep in a 24" dia. hole of concrete. He built it himself 25 years ago. Yes, its in a flood zone.