Basement Waterproofing

DamionR

Tom,

If that's the source of hte problem, obviously that will take care of it.

But, after 900 inspections that I've personally done... it wasn't the source 95% of the time.

Maybe the other way around... but certinaly not 95%

There was a story on CNN I can't find (I'll post later) talking about Basement Waterproofing. It was with the owner of Angieslist - pretty neat.

Regardless... the pricetag can vary a whole lot. $18K represents a lot of area to be covered... or a salesguy trying to cover his mortgage payment.

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Tom R

Alright, - - let's put it like this.

Bein's (as stated previously) most people's downspouts 'let out' right next to the house, - - that means all the rain that has fallen on the 'square footage footprint' of the house is being dumped right along the foundation.

If that's not the whole problem, - - it sure is a lot of it.

Common sense says that's the first thing that should be done either way.

Sure can't hurt.

And it's one helluva lot cheaper.

concretemasonry

Damion -

Just admit it - the most effective and economical way of eliminating basement leakage is to control both the roof runoff and the surface drainage.

After that, you look at the more costly methods. They range from the licensed/franchised "band-aids" with questionable results to the time-proven and recommended methods to eliminate the water at or below the footing level, which also reduces the hydrostatic pressure behind the wall and under the slab. Floor level drainage collectors that collect water that has already invaded the living space are not a solution.

I don't know how much experience you had in the non-existant Virginia Beach basement market, but in my 5 years of dealing with concrete and masonry construction there, I saw fewer basements than I saw elsewhere in a week. That would be the least I ever saw in one week in 30 years of experience in the basement business.

You have to address the problems first, offer ALL solutions and then sell a "bandaid" system if the customer rejects the time-proven methods. Anyone that puts their propietary name on generic products/methods is open to any and all critcism.

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DamionR

bein's? That funny

yup you're right Tom - most people do have the downspouts empty into a little splash block and that's it. Gutters clogged up too. These are obviously things that the homeowner can address themselves - or hire a handyman to do. We actually sent out a neat booklet that discussed things like that, and gave the homeowner tips on the "do-it-yourself" type repairs.

But it's still not a solution to the problem. It doesn't address three other problems...

• Water from capilary veings of water underground
• Rising water table/ground water
• False Water Table

You guys probably know a good about these types of things... but here's a good tool that shows how water gets in a basement - http://basementsystems.com/learning_...owl_effect.php

concretemasonry - notes on your post...

Just admit it - the most effective and economical way of eliminating basement leakage is to control both the roof runoff and the surface drainage.

economical - yes as long as it that's the only problem and it doesn't fail. Replacing drywall and carpeting and other finishing can be quite costly when it's damaged by water. Effective? Hardly.

After that, you look at the more costly methods. They range from the licensed/franchised "band-aids" with questionable results to the time-proven and recommended methods to eliminate the water at or below the footing level, which also reduces the hydrostatic pressure behind the wall and under the slab. Floor level drainage collectors that collect water that has already invaded the living space are not a solution.

Agreed. Maybe we're making the same point here. The gutters and downspouts should certianly be looked at and done properly... but that's only fixing one part of the issue.

Then again, you did say the best way is through roof runoff and surface drainage, which contradicts this statement. Maybe we're not making the same point.

I don't know how much experience you had in the non-existant Virginia Beach basement market, but in my 5 years of dealing with concrete and masonry construction there, I saw fewer basements than I saw elsewhere in a week. That would be the least I ever saw in one week in 30 years of experience in the basement business.

Yup - not a whole lot of basements here - the company mostly did foundation repair work (settlement issues). However... they worked through the entire mid-atlantic region. Did a bit of driving with that company (I lived near DC at the time)

You have to address the problems first, offer ALL solutions and then sell a "bandaid" system if the customer rejects the time-proven methods. Anyone that puts their propietary name on generic products/methods is open to any and all critcism.

Sell a Band-Aid System? That's just plain silly. Why would you even offer it? How would you offer any assurance to them that it would work?

What's the last line about?

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bayside

I am a drainage contractor in WA. If you do not have a way of gravity draining the basement which is the ideal situation. The 1rst thing I would check is the downspout drains. Check the roof lines and see which drains are taking on the biggest volume of water and see if this is anywhere near your leak. If it is try and divert the downspout water away from this area. Then I would dig up the area where the water is coming in (Make sure you dig out a wide enough area and just below the footing.) Then press wash this area apply 2 coats of thoroseal with acryl 60 admixture (make sure you get lots of material where the foundation wall meets the footing) the I would install bubble wrap foundation membrane over the area from ground level down and over the footing. Back fill with drain rock a good 2 feet up before you backfill. More than likely your problem is with your downspout drains
Good luck

Rollo

1. Spray rubber membane type coating on exterior of foundation wall
2. Cover with extruded foam insulation
3. Backfill with washed stone, not spoils from excavation, allowing full drainage to >
4. Drain tile or form-a-drain system, which feeds any invading water to >
5. Sump pump

OR

Do it wrong, get a crack in the foundation due to excess hydraulic pressure, re-excavate the foundation wall and repeat from step 1.

Gutters installed too late in the construction stage allow water from roof to drain down foundation wall, because backfill [spoils] has settled. blocking water flow to drainage system. You only have to pay for this mistake once to do it right from that time forward.

ApgarNJ

thought i would bring this one back up instead of making a new thread.

this is for my personal house that I live in. It's a small ranch house built it in the 50s on a cinderblock foundation. I have a 3 course high white chalky marks around the whole basement (on the wall from the floor up). i have my downspouts with 10' pvc extensions on them. I get water in there every single time, mostly from the floor up but also from the walls. I am not a basement waterproofer by any means but was wondering is the best thing to do, is cut a trough around the perimeter of the slab along the wall wide enough to dig it out and put a pipe in there?.

I do have a a gravity daylight drain in the one corner that works to get the water out, but it's still damp and wet for several days down there after a rain storm.

I want to put my office down in the office but want to make sure i solve this water problem first. I am not ready to dig up the outside of the house just yet to put a footing drain in. I'm sure it was built with either orangeburg pipe on the outside that is garbage now, or no drain at all. I am worried about there being water in the cinder block walls and causing damage, if it's not already damaged.

what would be the best way for me to water proof this? i don't want to paint the walls just yet unless i know there is away to get the water out from behind the walls and not cause pressure build up.

i was thinking of cutting the slab 5" away from the wall and removing that concrete, digging out the stone or dirt and putting a 4" perforated pipe in there and running it all the way around the basement and it would drain into the pit where my gravity drain is to daylight way away from the house.

let me know what you guys would do, i'm not an expert when it comes to this waterproofing business.

Thanks
Dan

ultimatetouch

Diverting down spouts can eliminate one active leak situation. I am not a big fan of drains going into the ground, I rather have them run out away from the house.

There is no solution other then Darius's solution to eliminating any kind of a water problem. Just to add to Darius's solution, make sure you get a back up power source for your sump pump. Drain tile around perimter going to the sump pump is the only way to have a sure dry basement. Thats commen sense Tom. Since we all know water will seek its own level.

I put a sump pump in our basement without draintile. I live in a starter home. I didnt want to dig up the permiter and go through all that. I eliminated all current leak points from the gutters draining into the ground. I installed a sump pump and bored holes in the pit low to the ground. It helped eliminate some rising water tables. My basement didnt leak for three years. Then we had unusual rain and my basement flooded. I new this would happen if the water really came down, I was just hoping it wouldnt do it till I moved.

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Barkri12

Fortunately, experts recommended basement waterproofing as the most effective method of channeling water from the outside, thereby, preventing the leaks in the basement walls, and flooring.
Since the inception of waterproofing, basement waterproofing has long been one of the most important concepts, especially now that most families would like to maximize the function of their basement.

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LNG24

After reading this thread, I am still not sure which way I should go with my waterproofing issues.

One of our Managed Properties experienced some flooding during heavy rain. Prior to taking over the property, it had flooded before.

Issues:

1. On the most recent event the Gutters were clogged! (they had been cleaned in the Spring though)
2. Water rises up through the floor.
3. Ground slopes toward house. (nothing we can do to change it)
4. We can not run new footing drains to daylight as basement is below height of the road drains.
5. Poured Concrete walls

As an excavator, I always installed footing drains to daylight both inside and outside the footings. So now I have this problem where that can not be done.

In order to put in a dry well to run them, I'd be over 8' to the top of the tank and will need to be another 5' below that. I think at this point, being well below the neighborhood water table, I will fill up the drywell quicker than I could dig it.

So my last resort is to go with a B-Dry type system. And this is what I am wrestling with, but it give the landlord a lifetime guarantee against water in the basement, (no other contractor can do that) and it seems to provide a sure fire method of eliminating the chance of water rising up through the floor again.

Now if I go with this system, I would use the battery back up device. Anyone see any reason not to go with B dry in this case?

Honestly, I have yet to see one of these systems fail, but I have seen countless Footing Drains fail.

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KennMacMoragh

^^ Maybe that would be better in another thread

Anyway, I set up a house with a high water table once, I realize the headaches and issues you can have with it. My house was set up high so I could drain everything out to the street. You're saying you have a high water table with a full basement? So the basement is basically surrounded by a lake?

I wouldn't guarantee anything, but consider a footing drain, not at the footing but at the bottom of your hill instead, where the hill meets the house. High enough so it can drain to the street.

The best solution I could think of is digging out all the dirt alongside the side of the foundation at the bottom of the hill. Epoxy in any cracks, get a nice thick layer of asphalt emulsion on it, or any really good water proofing. Apply filter fabric and back fill with drain rock. Then put in a footing drain, not at the footing since you're saying that's too low, but just high enough so it can drain in the street.

72chevy4x4

from personal experience with an 80yr old broke/cracked basement, installation of drain lines to take 4 out of five of the downspouts away and dump the contents greater than 75' from the house,water peeking up through a broken slab was eliminated.

seriously, if you dump all of the water from your roof out a couple of downspouts, it will saturate the ground in that general vicinity. Once the ground is saturated, it would seem to be easier for water to travel throught the already wet ground, making it easier to come in contact with the basement walls/footing. Now for those who install short lengths of pipe to move the water 2-4' away from the bottom of the downspout, for smaller amounts of water (shorter rainfall or less intensity), the shorter extension may prove to be enough, but it may also depend on the countour of the yard. I would bet a drain system taking the water from the area to a low area of the yard/street would be most beneficial and cost a lot less than basement water proofing membranes applied to the inside of a basement. I would also suggest that materail applied inside the basement walls while not addressing the source of the water is not in the best interest of the building-water would continue to act upon the foundation-still outliving most of us but in many years the water may act and degrade CMU (not sure about solid concrete walls).

I'm not an expert in basement waterproofing but have learned through first hand experience

JohnS

Closed cell foam is great for basements because of not only its ability to perform as a vapor retarded, but also its superior insulating characteristics.

ContrBob

If you go the sprayed foam insulation route, the best way is to place your studded wall (steel studs) up first, at least 2'' from the foundation wall. Use CLOSED CELL urethane because open cell will absorb water and humidity and cause a mold situation. When they spray the foam, it will expand behind the studs and form a great air barrier.

wheeler

our protocols if we're talking poured concrete foundation with slab:
1. check / clean gutters and downspouts;
2. check / rotoclean leader drains;
3. if none, install leader drains to gravity fed daylight discharge and eliminate sheet flow conditions around house;
4. find footing drain discharge and clean / clear or dig a test pit and water test;
5. if footing drain not functioning properly, you have three choices depending on how aggressive you want to be: 1) repair / replace; 2) trench drain to sump on the interior; or 3) both.

done in phases. if the gutters / downspouts sheet flow at the house, run them to leader drains away from the house and stop. see what happens in the next big rain. if that didn't work, get to the footing drains and so on. usually you don't have to go much further than step 3 and if you do, its because of ground water levels that may be shifting around with other activities in the area.

we've no sustained success w/coatings applied to the interior, and limited success with exterior applications used remedially. a wr grace product line, applied in rolls, w/bentonite sock applied at the corner of the footing / wall has been the most effective water proofing membrane we've used on an existing poured in place foundation. opened up the exterior foundation walls in phases, hand-dug away at the walls, power washed, and applied the system. it was coupled with step 5.2 above and done because of ground water conditions and permitting requirements for a bumpout. works.

ContrBob

Wheeler,

We always look at the same approach as you described.

Prevention goes a long way.

Bob

ContrBob

Also,
If you are getting water or moisture through the walls, I wouldn't use a paintable inside sealer. It will trap the moisture inside the wall and start to degrade it from the inside out. The closed cell urethane will at least direct any seepage down into the floor gap of your french drain system. You should call the company that installed your B-Dry system though. They have waterproof wall panels for directing leakage down into the drain system; the product is called rigid basement sealer .I'd see if they can retrofit this into your existing system. This might be your easiest route.
You mentioned that you have a B-Dry drainage system.

I'd also consider using a dehumidifier in the basement to keep the natural humidity levels down. Use a drain hose from the dehumidifier to drain the water into your sump pump or a floor drain.

If you decide on regular fiberglass insulation, keep your sud at least an inch or 2 away from the basement walls. If the insulation touches the cold foundation walls, condensation will collect in the fiberglass and cause a problem. You need air to freely circulate behind the walls.