adhering subfloor to concrete - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

72chevy4x4 · 08-13-2009, 06:54 AM

I have a dry 'mudroom' where a single layer of subflooring (advantech or plywood) would be ideal because of a height issue and would allow sheet vinyl to be installed.

There is an existing layer of 12" VCT installed which is in very good condition (no curling or loose tiles). what is the best method of attaching the subfloor to the concrete? This being tile between the concrete/subfloor, would a high grade adhesive be appropriate? I'm guessing Tapcon's could be used-that would be additional finish work in prepping for the the sheet vinyl...but if that's best...

jtpro · 08-13-2009, 10:23 AM

The only time I put sheet vinyl over something was sheet vinyl. I used embossing and full glue.

The only times for underlayment to concrete was just that no previous product in between.

That was adhesive, plywood tapconed then ¼” underlayment over that then vinyl. This was full glue sheet vinyl.

I would say if underlayment is a must (as you said for height) I would go with your gut and do the latter of the two as you basically described.

I have seen and installed some pretty durable vinyl with one company that was perimeter glued to concrete floor no real prep except for sweeping and a smidge of liquid underlayment/float product.

If you’re not set on underlayment that might be another option.

Joe Carola · 08-13-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4

I have a dry 'mudroom' where a single layer of subflooring (advantech or plywood) would be ideal because of a height issue and would allow sheet vinyl to be installed.

There is an existing layer of 12" VCT installed which is in very good condition (no curling or loose tiles). what is the best method of attaching the subfloor to the concrete? This being tile between the concrete/subfloor, would a high grade adhesive be appropriate? I'm guessing Tapcon's could be used-that would be additional finish work in prepping for the the sheet vinyl...but if that's best...

Maybe you can try Dricore. It's only 7/8" thick and you don't have to nail anything. I used it about 5 years ago in a basement and there are no problems.

http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx

jtpro · 08-13-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Carola

Maybe you can try Dricore. It's only 7/8" thick and you don't have to nail anything. I used it about 5 years ago in a basement and there are no problems.

http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx

Cool info!

Thanx

It says :
Ideal for carpet or floating floors such as laminate or floating engineered hardwood flooring.
For best results, run a dehumidifier to maintain relative humidity between 30 - 50% and regulate the room temperature to 21°C (70°F).

Are they referring to after installation on a permanent bases?

dkillianjr · 08-13-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtpro

[color=black][font=Verdana]
That was adhesive, plywood tapconed then ¼” underlayment over that then vinyl. This was full glue sheet vinyl.

I would say exactly what jt said

Dave

72chevy4x4 · 08-13-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Carola

Maybe you can try Dricore. It's only 7/8" thick and you don't have to nail anything. I used it about 5 years ago in a basement and there are no problems.

http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx

interesting thought Joe-thanks, I'll look for this but may end up going the adhesive/ply/tapcon/luaan route if it's not local.

thanks for the advice guys.

jtpro · 08-13-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkillianjr

I would say exactly what jt said

Dave

Yep what he said.

Also for real wood floors only it's adhesive,tapconned ply, adhesive, wood.

I find that Dricore interesting though.

KennMacMoragh · 08-14-2009, 01:44 AM

Insulated floor tiles are another option, if you want a warm floor.

http://www.ovrx.com/basement-flooring.html

jtpro · 08-14-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennMacMoragh

Insulated floor tiles are another option, if you want a warm floor.

http://www.ovrx.com/basement-flooring.html

I would be interested in the pros/cons between that and dricore.

Nice to see new products to give options.

Thanx for sharing

**genecarp** · 08-14-2009, 07:38 AM

There are so many styles of floating floor out there today, that there is no reason to make this more complicated with attaching a subfloor. G

72chevy4x4 · 08-15-2009, 07:44 AM

I'm not a fan of floating wood floors of the Pergo variety because of the 'noise' issues. Once walked the interior hall of a doctors office who had a floating floor installed and the noise was deafening!

Lowes carry's the 2x2 basement tiles referenced above and at around $6.28/ tile, that adds up quickly. A 48 sqft area would require $75 in Dricore product w/ minimal labor versus the same area with a $14 sheet of plywood, $8 in adhesive and tapcons and the additional labor-works out to be a difference of $53 in material cost. If that were something I could add as an option when selling the job, I think the product could sell itself.

neolitic · 08-15-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4

I'm not a fan of floating wood floors of the Pergo variety because of the 'noise' issues. Once walked the interior hall of a doctors office who had a floating floor installed and the noise was deafening!

Lowes carry's the 2x2 basement tiles referenced above and at around $6.28/ tile, that adds up quickly. A 48 sqft area would require $75 in Dricore product w/ minimal labor versus the same area with a $14 sheet of plywood, $8 in adhesive and tapcons and the additional labor-works out to be a difference of $53 in material cost. If that were something I could add as an option when selling the job, I think the product could sell itself.

If I read this right, you are
putting in sheet vinyl?
Dricore isn't a good fit for that
from what I've seen. 2¢

WNYcarpenter · 08-15-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4

interesting thought Joe-thanks, I'll look for this but may end up going the adhesive/ply/tapcon/luaan route if it's not local.

thanks for the advice guys.

I would stick with your plan....My only thought would be using PT plywood, but since there's no obvious problems with the existing tile then maybe the PT is unnecessary.

72chevy4x4 · 08-15-2009, 01:48 PM

I am not using Dricore, just posted back for the benefit of others

I am installing sheet vinyl and using luaan over the plywood. even if using Dricore, it would seem reasonable to use luaan over top (I staple my luaan down)

neolitic · 08-15-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4

I am not using Dricore, just posted back for the benefit of others

I am installing sheet vinyl and using luaan over the plywood. even if using Dricore, it would seem reasonable to use luaan over top (I staple my luaan down)

Have you thought about birch
underlayment rather than lauan?

Can't find the info for my brand,
but this is the same deal.

http://www.halexcorp.com/halex_underlayment_4.shtml

It is a far superior product to lauan.

72chevy4x4 · 08-15-2009, 03:03 PM

thanks neo. product link states 100% more crush resistance-I knew luaan was 'soft'...

jtpro · 08-15-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4

thanks neo. product link states 100% more crush resistance-I knew luaan was 'soft'...

I've only used 1/4 " ply not luaan for vinyl and only used it once for VCT 'cause another guy had bought it. Not judging just saying,

AND FYI BE MINDFUL of the staples being to long and hitting the concrete!

I don't know ANYONE that went from wood subfloor in a kitchen and then strait to a concret sub floor foyer in the same house NOT thinking of the depth!

If you could clarify from your previous post. You have a potential client with a "Mud Room" you mean for mixing or storing mud? i.e. drywall or cement?

jtpro · 08-15-2009, 03:39 PM

Guess I better clarify birch/sandi ply not regular for the aforementioned in my posts. I get what HD has.

Used to get it back home from the flooring supply place we did installs for.

WNYcarpenter · 08-15-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtpro

I've only used 1/4 " ply not luaan for vinyl and only used it once for VCT 'cause another guy had bought it. Not judging just saying,

AND FYI BE MINDFUL of the staples being to long and hitting the concrete!

I don't know ANYONE that went from wood subfloor in a kitchen and then strait to a concret sub floor foyer in the same house NOT thinking of the depth!

If you could clarify from your previous post. You have a potential client with a "Mud Room" you mean for mixing or storing mud? i.e. drywall or cement?

No.....a mudroom is a an entry like a foyer, you take off your muddy boots, coat, scrubs etc....before you enter the house. Outdoor gear is stored there.

72chevy4x4 · 08-15-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtpro

I don't know ANYONE that went from wood subfloor in a kitchen and then strait to a concret sub floor foyer in the same house NOT thinking of the depth!

If you could clarify from your previous post. You have a potential client with a "Mud Room" you mean for mixing or storing mud? i.e. drywall or cement?

note to self: add "remodeling of Amish house" to resume

it's been an interesting job (remodeled other portions of house too)-started off as a block house with 4 additions over the years. The flooring in the main house has two layers of flooring topped with hardwood-that's 2 1/4" inches of floor material!