2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.

 
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:57 PM   #1
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2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


Remodeling kitchen and mud room in my two story 1936 home. Part of the kitchen was an addition and bumps out about 4 feet and has a nearly flat roof on it. This bump out was not continued up to the second story. Above the kitchen is the bathroom shared by all three bedrooms upstairs. It's pretty small. Since I will be opening up the ceiling in the kitchen and knocking out the wall to the living room I question whether it would be much more difficult to bump the bathroom out over that little roof at the same time. Can this be done relatively easily? Is it expensive if I do it myself? Are there obvious issues/difficulties with this that I don't see due to my lack of framing experience? Please see attached picture.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:18 PM   #2
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


Are you involved in the construction industry professionally?

We will offer help, when we know a bit more about the poster.

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Old 12-02-2017, 02:45 PM   #3
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


Sorry, thought my profile listed those details. I'm 37 and an avid DIY'er with an eye for detail but a good big picture view of most projects. I'm a licensed Builder in the state of Michigan and have owned my own remodeling company for 6 months. I have been involved in residential and some commercial construction for 6 years and flipped 15 houses with a team of three. I'm pretty good at drywall, decent at framing, electric, HVAC and plumbing, and fare very well at just about any finish work I've encountered as I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it's necessary. Corian countertops to hardwoods to complex custom trim, to tile, vinyl siding, wall coverings, masonry, I'll do anything I can get my hands on and thirst for new knowledge ... But alas, Jack of all master of none.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:51 PM   #4
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


When was the addition put on? any drawings?
So many times homes that old have had DIY additions and I mean DIY, framed with scraps and hand full of nails.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:14 PM   #5
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


By the time you frame up a space like that realistically how much space are you going to get out of it.

Factor in having to run all the plumbing electrical and what not is it worth the time and effort?

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Old 12-02-2017, 03:33 PM   #6
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


I would guess the early 70's. They did add to the stone and cement foundation walls and extend it under the kitchen sans any sign of a slab. No drawings or anything. Walls and attic show scabbed together mazes of true twos and a variety of other reused building materials such as pieces of a church door for floor joists in the mud room, 4" t&g hardwoods for sill plates, and 3/16" ply for walls. So sorry I can't tell you more. Demo was planned for today but wife got sick so I've got kid duty.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:35 PM   #7
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


It would push this wall back another 4.5 feet. Plumbing is already being rerouted to take out wall between kitchen and living room. (There's a small bathroom in the kitchen that's going away) Pictured is the second floor bath.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:15 PM   #8
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


Thanks for the participating in our vetting process.

First thing I would check is the foundation. I'm not familiar with Michigan building codes, but here in California, the footing requirements are different for 1 or 2 story structures. So if the footing was only poured for a single story addition, it'll probably be more money than you want to spend to try to beef it up to support a second story.

If the footing/foundation checks out, you'll need to have a look at the wall framing.


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Old 12-02-2017, 04:19 PM   #9
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


The framing for that is a couple days max. Tear off, sheath the floor, and frame a couple walls.

What is the biggest issue, is what are you doing with the roof? You don't have any headroom to continue that roof down, and a short gable is gonna look like hell.

If ScipioAfricanus checks in on this thread, he'd have some good ideas about what to do with the roof. Or Warren.




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Old 12-02-2017, 04:27 PM   #10
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


Awesome Delta. That's exactly what I needed to know. I have never seen a corner that brought three roof lines like this together in a sensible manner.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:27 PM   #11
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


Thank you Delta.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:37 PM   #12
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


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Awesome Delta. That's exactly what I needed to know. I have never seen a corner that brought three roof lines like this together in a sensible manner.
I suck at design. ScipioAfricanus is a really good draftsman/designer who is pretty active here, and Warren is a master framer, especially with roofs, and he's active here as well.


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Old 12-02-2017, 04:55 PM   #13
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


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I would guess the early 70's. They did add to the stone and cement foundation walls and extend it under the kitchen sans any sign of a slab. No drawings or anything. Walls and attic show scabbed together mazes of true twos and a variety of other reused building materials such as pieces of a church door for floor joists in the mud room, 4" t&g hardwoods for sill plates, and 3/16" ply for walls. So sorry I can't tell you more. Demo was planned for today but wife got sick so I've got kid duty.
I would expect to reframe that 1st story wall. Many people on drugs building in the 70s
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:46 PM   #14
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


I believe You're going to have to lower the roof pitch on that side to bring it out over the addition. I'm guessing the existing roof system is 100+ years old. You may be stuck upgrading that whole section of roof to bring it up to code once you touch it. Either way, It's an expensive proposition.

Obviously, avoid making a blind valley
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:10 PM   #15
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


I see some problems with the roof. I don't see a simple way to do it. That area is already not ideal, with the 2 different fascia heights there. I think I would recommend doing a shed dormer off of the higher roof, ending in a fascia that is the same as the higher one currently.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:38 PM   #16
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


I'm not a big fan of flat roofs, but the simplest thing would be to raise the flat roof so that it is even with the eave of the lower roof and fall to the long wall of the addition. The water from above is already falling on the flat roof, so in my mind it is a little bit better situation than what you have now. Another option would still be to have the flat roof meet the eve on the higher roof, and fall to the short wall of the addition. I don't think that either of these options would look any worse than what you already have.

Warren's way would look more professional (or less patched together) as a whole.

Either way the biggest concern is to make sure that the roof is supported properly after you remove the existing wall. It can be tough to get a point load carried down to the foundation, even more so if it is balloon framed.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:11 PM   #17
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


could do this.
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:29 AM   #18
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


1st is that the you will need to make sure that the new floor beams will match the bathroom floor level. The kitchen bump out wall plates may be set at a point that will cause a problem for your new floor beams to match up.

Also, i see the up above there are 2 different gable rooflines meeting right in that corner. You will need to know your framing in order to make that look good.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:58 AM   #19
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Re: 2nd Story Bath Addition...or Not.


Thanks for everyone's comments. Decided not to do the expansion. The remodel inside the kitchen turned into a beast once I got the walls open. Next week a framing crew will be installing a 16' double or triple LAM beam across the separation of the kitchen from the living room. Then hanging three 10" LAM's off the sides to support the rooms above (the ones that had the load walls cut out in a previous remodel). So much for a budget!

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