Window Pricing Help.

Flikka

Hi

I'm currently taking a Construction Project Management course, in Toronto, and for our individual project I have been given the task of making up a Bills of Quantity estimate on the purchase and installation of all the windows and doors in a house (floor plans given by teacher). He wants us to use current trade prices and has left us on our own to figure out where to find them. Nice guy huh? Teacher from the last course just asked us to be realistic that we had enough to do without worrying about correct costs......oh well. Are there any web sites that you can suggest that I might get that information from? Or is anyone here willing to help me out? I have the approx sizes of the windows.....a price per sq ft for the cost of material and separate labour costs per sq ft would be awesome then I could figure out the estimate on my own. I have decided to use casement windows, I wouldn't use them in my own house (love my double-hung) but casements seems to be what most builders are using.

Thank-you very much.

Patrick

Why don't you buy a labor book and look up the cost of windows or get estimates.

Flikka

Good idea, can you suggest one that I can get today? This project was given on Wed. and is due this Monday....just trying to get it done asap. I'd certainly help you out if you were looking for decorating or painting estimates for a school project.

Thanks
mary

tcleve4911

For standard Andersen windows DH or csmnt, you can go to the big orange store and get the prices right off the shelves. This would be the fastest way for your exercise in PM.

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Flikka

I could but I'm suppose to use trade prices....any idea of the % between trade and what Home Despot charges? Is there a standard price per square ft for labour? Is there any reason that one of you window guys couldn't send me a private message to give me an idea?

Thanks
mary

CharlesD

Window World will do them for 189.00 installed.

Patrick

How could there be a sq ft charge for windows and doors? A lot of it depends on who does it. Most new houses the framers pop em in Usually doubling the cost of a new construction window is a good starting point

Flikka

Thank-you Patrick. Are you saying that if a window cost $100 to the builder then his framers labour charge would be $100? I was only suggesting a sq ft $$ as I have several windows of different sizes. If it could have been broken down easily into a sq ft price then I could have figured out all the windows on my own. I guess I'm off to Home Despot today as time is running out to see what I can find out there. Failing that I'll guess and hope for the best.

Patrick

Again it really all depends on the window. Who is responsible for putting it in and whether or not they are simply installing it or have to install extension jambs and trim it out, apply siding around it, and finish the window.

Flikka

Ok.....so I've been to Home Despot where a nice young college kid looked up all the prices for me for each of the windows on the plan. Anyone have an idea of how HD's prices stack up to what you would pay if you were buying direct from the manfacturer or dealer? I had him price Jeld-Wen casement windows and as I was ordering () more than 10 windows I would get 10% off those prices would another 5-10 be about right as far as trade prices are? I'm still at a lose for labour though and I do understand what your saying Patrick.....how about this.... IF you were installing a triple 6'x4' casement window with extended openers with the two outside panes opening far left/far right with 2" brink molding in a 2 storey new build house how much do you think you might charge for it if all the stars were in alignment? Bare in mind that there are 19 windows in total some fixed most open.

Thank-you
Mary

Ragnar

Mary,

As far as the unit pricing on windows, you need to be aware that there is HUGE variation in cost depending on the material used, the glazing used, the general quality of the window, etc. etc.

If you went to a car lot and asked, "How much does a four door sedan cost these days?" what sort of answer do you think you'd get?

I'm not trying to be snotty -- just trying to point out that it's very difficult to get a "ballpark figure" that's in any way meaningful.

For purposes of your homework problem, I'd just use the real numbers you got from HD. Note also that HD does not give pricing breaks to contractors (at least not where I live).


Same thing as above for installation costs. There's a HUGE variation depending on the scope of work, existing conditions, and of course the labor rates will vary depending on where the job is located. I have no idea what the labor rates are in Toronto.

I don't think you've defined the scope of work yet. Bare minimum would be in a new construction situation where one simply wraps the rough opening with building paper and nails the window through the flanges (if that's the type of window being used). For an average window, this only takes like 15 minutes or so. All the other work (like trimming the window inside and out) would be at additional cost.

If your scope of work is to replace and/or resize an existing window, it can take more like a full day of work.

Hope that helps you a little.

Flikka

Hi Ragner,

Thank-you for your comments. I know it is difficult for you in the business to help me....imagine what it's like on my end. This course is fast-tracked (16 wks into less than 7) and ya know at some point during my homework assignments or when studying for tests I get to thinkin.....this doesn't have to be perfect...it's a learning process. I hit that wall yesterday and with your's, Patrick's and HD's help I'm just about done. I tend to stress myself out more than I need to BUT....having said that it gets me those 80+ marks as a result.

About HD pricing.......would you or a builder not get a better price from Jeld-Wen than what HD would retail it for?.....There I go again...just leave it alone Mary..it's done already.

Cheers
Mary

Patrick

You would have to buy a lot of windows to order direct from jeldwen. Home depot is like walmart and pretty much tells these companies if you want your product in out store we will only pay you x amount of dollars for it take or leave it. In many cases home depot comes in cheaper than trade sources for windows and doors however they cannot offer the service and delivery options that trade sources can offer

dougchips

Most of the home center models are not available to other vendors so the home centers do not have to price match. In reference to Jeldwin they have some really nice pictures, take a close look at the end product---what happened to the nice stuff in the pictures.

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Ragnar

Patrick and dougchips are both right: HD gets incredible pricing due to their volume buying, and the box stores often market "exclusive" lines which helps them avoid head-to-head price matching with other retailers.

As for the discounts that we contractors get, it really depends a lot on the specific product and the specific vendor. I'm a small business owner, so I don't buy in enough volume to get huge breaks. In my experience, most places only give guys like me something on the order of 10-15% below regular retail. The best pricing structure I've ever got is 30% off retail.

In my opinion, estimating is one of the toughest parts of being a contractor -- and that goes double for remodel work. If you're too high, you can lose the work; if you're too low you end up working cheap, and there's opportunity costs associated with that.

Unfortunately, every job is different, and none of us have a crystal ball to know exactly how things will unfold. Many people try to come up with unit pricing schemes (like price per square foot, etc.), but those are only vague correlations. The only good thing about unit pricing approaches is that they yield a quick result. It's easy to spend hours and hours on an accurate bid, and people seldom find a way to get paid directly for those efforts.

Good luck in your class!

Ragnar

PS: Someday, I think you'll like the fact that this particular instructor is making things a little hard on you right now. One of my professors was like that in college -- he'd intentionally leave a few critical pieces out of the puzzle so that we couldn't come up with a unique solution. We'd have to make some assumptions and be a little innovative to find answers. But that's exactly what it's like in the real world. I think one of the best things an instructor can do for his or her students is force them to look outside the answer book.

Grumpy

You'd be suprised! Do enough houses similiar and then break them all down by the square foot. I agree with you but I know alot of guys bid this way.

I remember having a discussion with a GC and he asked my square foot price for weatherboards. When I told him he laughed and I wasn't sure why. He was talking square footage of floor area, and I of wall area. He was shocked and I was shocked. We still work together sometimes.


The book, RS means construction cost estimating, or soemthing very similiar, would have the data you need regarding labor costs. It might even have some data regarding materials but I can see there no way for that to be accurate based on the enormous number of variables available in windows these days.

IN regards to what Doug said about home depot sometimes being cheaper, he is right. Sometimes they are, BUT I also have found many manufacturers also make special "toned down" models of their products for the home depot shelves, very similiar to products you can get elsewhere but noticeably cheaper. Then again sometimes they are just cheaper in price and the same models. One difference between home depot and walmart, is walmart is not truly a storie but is a broker. The vendor maintains ownership of the items on the shelves until the exact second of purchase when the ownership is then transfered to the buyer. basically the vendor rents shelf space and walmart takes their cut at the time of sale. Neat business model.

Amber

Having worked for Jeld-Wen I can tell you that you have to purchase about 250K a year from them to sell their product, but also having worked as a contractor on the other side of the fence I can also say that when you do they take very good care of you. It's probably too late now for your project, but rule of thumb is to go 3x's cost.

Flikka

Hi Amber,

Thanks for your input....yes it is late.....thank goodness that class is over.....only 4 more left. 2 in Sept and the final 2 in Jan. I'm sure I'll be back.....being a pest.

theroofinggod

sorry,came late