Why does triple 3" look like crap? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Patrick · 03-20-2008, 04:02 PM

Everyonce in a while against my opinion, someone chooses triple 3 vinyl for their house. Just started one today, after using double 4 for so long, the triple 3 just looks like garbage. The seams look crappy the lines look crappy. I think my expectations for how things should look are too high, as the customers always love how our houses look. Anyone hate triple 3 like i do?

Brock · 03-20-2008, 04:51 PM

Hate all vinyl siding. It's all garbage. Every know and then we are forced to put it up on new garages or room additions to match existing. We have them sign off on no warranty though if they make us install it.

**genecarp** · 03-20-2008, 05:30 PM

cedar impressions, is ok

easy sider · 03-20-2008, 05:44 PM

We side at least two homes a week with Certainteed vinyl products and it just looks so nice. We were into Alcoa and Royal, but because Alcoa is disappearing this summer and Royal lost its distribution in WA were going with Certainteed.
I really like white trip 3 for restoration of old post and beam type houses. These are some of our best looking jobs. The other colors seem fake in a trip 3 to me. White siding with red, green or my favorite, black trim just looks so authentic.

Patrick · 03-20-2008, 06:54 PM

Easy, How come you didn't want to stay with the new Mastic? Is it because of the product, or because of the loss of name recognition?

Don't pay any attention to Brock, he's sour about everything.

easy sider · 03-20-2008, 07:26 PM

I used Mastic T-lok for years. It is what Alcoa designed their Liberty Elite panel after. The .048 thickness of the panel made it a real winner. Then came changes with the introduction of Quest and Grand Siera to meet Dade County Wind code and a thiner panel.
At the point where all the distributors in my area droped the .048 panels and made them special order only and the closure of Hugh McNiven Company in WA and OR we started looking for a better deal. All our buddies at Hugh Mc became reps for other distributors. We now have to pay freight on all Alcoa products which is around $280.00 per job. We have a Certainteed distributor nearby with freight not an issue. $280.00 x 100 jobs = $28,000.00. Certainteed Monogram extended lenght is one of the best panels we have used and was #1 in Consumer Reports a few years ago. We can get 16 ft and 20 ft panels and that makes the seamless steel guys nervous.

So really its the cost and quality of Mastic .044 versus Certainteed .046 thats the kicker for us.

MJW · 03-20-2008, 07:27 PM

I don't like the triple 3 either. Just looks crappy to me.

We have been using Thunderbay in 25 ft. and 16. ft lengths. I really like it. Also been using the Certainteed super corners. Very nice. Don't care for the lineals though.

Anyone used the Certainteed Monogram in the 20 ft pieces?
How about their 10 ft shake panels?
Or the Cedar Board siding with the foam?

Really interested in opinions.

Brock · 03-20-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

Easy, How come you didn't want to stay with the new Mastic? Is it because of the product, or because of the loss of name recognition?

Don't pay any attention to Brock, he's sour about everything.

Not sure if I would say "sour" about everything. I party with the best of them. I do however have issues covering a home with a product you can't nail tight and cut with scissors. I realize not all folks are of the same opinion, but as a legitimate contractor I would have a very tough time saying it looks good, even though as I stated earlier we are forced to apply it to some of our buildings. We make it thoroughly clear that it will be filthy and uncleanable in a year and if any hail hits it (which it does here annually) it will look like you have been attacked by a sub machine gun. If we aren't able to dissuade them, then we simply have them sign off on any warranty and go ahead an bang it on. We just installed a double 5 today. H/O came out and loved it and I had to give one of my guys the skunk-eye because he was fighting off the laughter. But he knows who signs his check.

MJW · 03-20-2008, 07:43 PM

Well, there is no warranty on any siding that I know of for hail. Also, vinyl siding is supposed to be power washed twice a year.

Not sure what else you could use besides steel, which I prefer, or lap siding. Lap siding you don't have a warranty better than the paint put on it.

What else is there?

Patrick · 03-20-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Not sure if I would say "sour" about everything. I party with the best of them. I do however have issues covering a home with a product you can't nail tight and cut with scissors. I realize not all folks are of the same opinion, but as a legitimate contractor I would have a very tough time saying it looks good, even though as I stated earlier we are forced to apply it to some of our buildings. We make it thoroughly clear that it will be filthy and uncleanable in a year and if any hail hits it (which it does here annually) it will look like you have been attacked by a sub machine gun. If we aren't able to dissuade them, then we simply have them sign off on any warranty and go ahead an bang it on. We just installed a double 5 today. H/O came out and loved it and I had to give one of my guys the skunk-eye because he was fighting off the laughter. But he knows who signs his check.

Brock, I just wish people would look at a) the product being installed, and b) the person installing it. YEA all the vinyl done in the 80's and early 90's by vinyl slingers looks like crap! YES there are still vinyl slingers making houses look like CRAP. Take a look at some of the really good guys that specialize in vinyl, and take care to make it look like real siding, I like to think we do that. We use only .044 and .046 or heavier panels, We use 16, 20, and 25' panels.

The product is being made better, heavier, better colors, more UV resistance than ever. The big companies stand behind their product. ALCOA/Plygem, HAS and WILL continue to pay for defective product.

Look at the big picture, we are offering a product, to fit a wide array of budgets, that looks sharp, never needs to be painted, wont rot. Look at it for what it is, not what its not.

oldfrt · 03-20-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJW

Well, there is no warranty on any siding that I know of for hail. Also, vinyl siding is supposed to be power washed twice a year.

Not sure what else you could use besides steel, which I prefer, or lap siding. Lap siding you don't have a warranty better than the paint put on it.

What else is there?

Nothing wrong with a little hail damage( when it does happen)It creates more work and the home owners Insurance has always forked over the cash to reside the whole house,even if just one side is damaged and the original color of siding can't be matched up.

We did a couple a few years back,but these were older siding applications where the siding had become brittle.
Hail storm damage is pretty rare unless there is a driving wind to propel the hail sideways.

Brock,
I think your stretching to disavow the use of vinyl because of hail!

cleveman · 03-20-2008, 10:00 PM

triple 3 is my vinyl siding of choice. I guess there is some triple 2 5/8", which would be even better. I think with vinyl, the more bends you have, the stronger the product.

Patrick · 03-20-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleveman

triple 3 is my vinyl siding of choice. I guess there is some triple 2 5/8", which would be even better. I think with vinyl, the more bends you have, the stronger the product.

Yes, but the more bends, the uglier the seam

odellconstruct · 03-26-2008, 10:58 PM

goes on faster ! 12'' vs 8 " double 4. i only use the 12 ft panels use the joints for expansion , no way i would use a 25' panel that means at 40 deg here in ny you would have to leave a big gap between siding and corner , the piece will be falling out looking like crap ! and when it heats up youll get all the bubbles from expansion (yes i float the nails hang it not nail it ). just my opinion

A W Smith · 03-26-2008, 11:04 PM

because its not Scottish?

Know what looks worse? Quadruple 3. I didn't even know it existed till i saw it on a multi family in town next to a garage i was repairing that the eighty something your old man blew through with his car.

Patrick · 03-26-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odellconstruct

goes on faster ! 12'' vs 8 " double 4. i only use the 12 ft panels use the joints for expansion , no way i would use a 25' panel that means at 40 deg here in ny you would have to leave a big gap between siding and corner , the piece will be falling out looking like crap ! and when it heats up youll get all the bubbles from expansion (yes i float the nails hang it not nail it ). just my opinion

All of our trim and corners have a 2" deep pocket, that pannel can move all it wants

rojigga · 04-02-2008, 08:52 PM

Vinyl is great when you're looking for a budget choice, and that's what it comes down to for a lot of people.

I'm not gonna say this or nitpick at that but even installed properly the warping will make the product and its installation look crappy over the years. Even if you do all things possible, stuff will play over time and mitred 45's on your J's will come apart. You can say it needs to be washed twice a year or the installers of the 80's and 90's are few and far between but at the end of the day there are and will always be loads and loads of crap installers who just don't care; and who wants to wash their house twice a year?.

I wish I could stand by very high end vinyl products but if I am gonna pay premium I know I can make a house look better and more durable with other products.

Ever see a house with the ghost of a BBQ still haunting a vinyl house?

vinylguy · 04-02-2008, 09:11 PM

sorry guys but i must chime in!
mjw says you should power wash your vinyl siding 2x's per year. very not true. wash it yes but not power wash have you ever read the proper care manual. soapy water with a mild detergent and a garden hose never apply more pressure than what you can hold against your own hand.
also hail damage is covered by the right manufacturers.
maybe you guys should look into composite siding and move into better quality stuff no more waving warping chaulking sagging or fadeing
fact is alcoa and certianteed are lumber yard grade material and you cant difference yourself from everyone else in the market. therefore it always comes down to the cheapest price for the work.
and the guy that offers a free power washing with the new vinyl siding gets crushed when we come in the house behind them.
education and knowledge is key in the home improvement game !

MJW · 04-02-2008, 09:19 PM

What do you recommend? The problems you describe are covered under warranty or are caused by a bad installer.

Lumber yard grade material?????What's that supposed to mean.

I hope you are not talking about cement board. In it's short life in the business so far, I think we all have seen enough of that and it's problems.

vinylguy · 04-03-2008, 06:52 AM

mjw,
not cement board but composite siding. google it you'll see the difference.
and yes thier is not much anyone can do about hack work unless all states start practicing like new jersey does if you don't have workers comp on your guys they will pay a snitch fee of 10% of monies collected for the one who reports the other contractor illegal practice.