Vinyl Siding Price - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

joyh23 · 04-06-2006, 06:32 PM

I am bidding a job for new vinyl siding in Johnstown, PA. I was wondering what the going rate for vinyl siding per square is. My cost for the siding itself is 53 per square and I am putting up 1/4in Fanfold insulation under. For the tear down of the aluminum siding, I figure my cash in on the aluminum would cover the labor of removal. Also for soffit and Fascia per foot I am not sure what amount to charge. This is a large project, I am also putting on new porches, replacing a basement door, and doing some concrete work for them.

Thanks,
john joynell

IHI · 04-06-2006, 08:44 PM

Not to sound too much like a jerk, but these seriously sound like home owner questions. Siding is only $53/sq your cost...okay what about lathe, starter strip, J, F, UT, mini mounts, nails, tape, fanfold, soffit, coil??? I think you'll find the TRUE cost of the siding and all related items to install it are much higher than $53/sq.

If you think scrap price from removed siding will cover your labor to remove it...this will be one of the valuable learning experiences of being in business

Porches typically get bid by sq/ft like most other things-this will all vary on how fancy/complex it is. Doors typically are flat ratedl, and concrete is usually done by sq/ft also.

It sounds like you'd be better off to use this job as a learning experience since your covering quite a few aspects, and doing a time and material billing-this will save your ass in the big picture since it sounds like you need some pricing/labor/time managment under your belt to help you assess what your acutal operating costs will be. Also geography will play into your prices since NJ prices will vary greatly from our mid western prices.

Not to sound too smug, but just the way ? was worded made me assume it's a home owner price checking again.

Josh

jproffer · 04-06-2006, 10:02 PM

I agree with the homeowner comment, if I'm wrong I apologize.

Quote:

I figure my cash in on the aluminum would cover the labor of removal

Now assuming you are a contractor bidding a job...what does the price of scrap recycling have to do with what you charge for tearing off?

NOTHING!!

If you can recycle for high $$, then good for you. But what if Joe Homeowner comes out after the job, sees the scrap (and the dollar signs) and decides he'd like to keep it for himself? You bid a firm price to remove and install, so there's no raising it now. So you just ripped a whole house of siding for free...congratulations

. I don't mean to sound like an a$$, but think about what you're saying. I wouldn't rely on the going rate for scrap AL to pay enough to cover cost on the tearoff. Around here I think it's about $0.75/lb and a whole house worth weighs.......ummm.....well I don't know, but it aint a helluva lot

**joasis** · 04-06-2006, 11:24 PM

I don't think I would bid on something I knew very little about. IHI pointed out the things you are neglecting, and what about a break for the coil stock? Tools? Few more little things...

When we bid siding jobs, I charge based on the square to tear off the old, and another price to install the new. The scrap value of the old siding I would give to my crew for beer money if they were inclined, otherwise, I have to charge to dispose of it.

I agree with above, sounds a lot like a HO checking a bid and wanting to get the old stuff off for the scrap value to save some bucks.

skidmark845 · 04-07-2006, 07:18 AM

Those darn home owners trying to save a few bucks, how dare they..!!!

IHI · 04-07-2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidmark845

Those darn home owners trying to save a few bucks, how dare they..!!!

Nope, just the typical-try to get the lowest price possible even though they are most likely sacrificing quality installation and great customer service in the event of an unfortunate mishaps with a product-who knows this could be one of your customers?? and now they're trying to arm themselves to make you cut your own throat so you can work for free??

I hate taking time away family and other obligations to meet with people looking for a section 8 job that shoot down everything we have to offer and in the end waste my time/money tire kicking since a good contractor wont work for free. Nothing in life is free and only people that can afford to go cheap are rich people since they afford to do it twice.

90% of homeowners around here expect you to work for free and I cant tell you the amount of time I've lost with family/freinds/other obligations putting together fair estimates only to be told they want it done for half (exhageration-but "their" price is typically what my operating expenses are which are very very low so I have no room for profit-why be in business with all the associated risks if you cant turn a profit??) since they could have uncle bob's brothers cousin do it for $x on the side. Most of us deal with this mentality Mon-Fri and now we're dealing with it on a contractor forum? That's what DIY and other sites are for if homies want to price shop amoungst themselves. I come here to enjoy the company of fellow tradesmen, talk shop and other issues for a stress relief or ideas when we run into things out of the norm, not to deal with posing homeowners trying to screw over their contractor.

Not trying to make it sound like a personal attack, it's not. Just expressing the opinion as I see it.

skidmark845 · 04-07-2006, 10:24 AM

IHI, I know your not making a personal attach. You bring up very vailid and true points. Thanks for the feedback.....!

maj · 04-07-2006, 11:08 AM

Notice that joyh23's contracting trade is "electrical", so my guess is that he/she is putting new siding on their own home and want to brag about how much money they saved by doing themselves.

Or, the electrical business is slow, so he/she is taking on a siding job to use for fill-in work.

Quote:

This is a large project, I am also putting on new porches, replacing a basement door, and doing some concrete work for them.

With that said, sounds like it might be more like his/her own house

Besides that, we have not heard back from him/her since the original post, so probably didn't like what he/she saw for responses!

So it seems this thread has turned into a venting thread, which I must agree with you guys on the homeowner pricing from contractors to get an idea of how much money they can save by doing it themselves or having cousin Billy Bob help out

I don't mind being under bid by other reputable contractors, probably my fault anyway, but when I get called to give a bid for roofing, siding, or small additions and lose the job because they do it themselves, that really gets my goat.

I don't think they realize how much time we have involved in measuring, material estimates, and bid compilation.

A few years ago we had substantial hail damage. All we did for a week was drive around measuring roofs and giving insurance estimates. You know how many jobs I got out of all that?.........NONE, NOTA, ZIP!!!
I finally got smart and told 'em right out that I would be glad to give an estimate, but i am charging $100 for it. Everyone from then said, "I'll find someone else." I said, "Go for it!". Most of 'em sent in the estimates and took the cash, never did do anything with their roof!!So not only do I lose time and money, but they gained!!

IHI · 04-07-2006, 01:25 PM

Maj: hard to know what original intentions were since no response has been posted. Typically most legit contractors would've posted back saying what they say for mis communication and go on to tell the rest of the story. Nothing wrong with looking for info, but the exact way original post was worded really makes me suspicious since it sounds soo "uninformed"-esspecially for a contractor of any trade to be asking since unless your in a bubble I think we all have a general idea of what's typically involved in each trade even though we dont specialize in it, we're constantly around it.

Not to mention in original post it stated "I am bidding a job", I've never bid a job on my own property

not to mention if asking questions such as this, even if it is fill in work, I'd be VERY leary of giving info to send somebody onto a job that's asking these basic open ended questions....since it;s painfully obvious it's lacking any experience for all the aspects being inquired about...hence the homeowner price checking assumtion.

I dunno, if they want to give more info then they know what to do and we all know based off other responses without know locations it's near impossible to give ball park figures anyways since $100/sq to install in my area might equate to $20/sq on the coasts.

Insurance jobs=

Now these are the biggest tire kicking price gouging fockers know to man. I hagled with one adjuster saying they found somebody to do the job over $1K cheaper "could I lower my bid" even though they verbally admitted missing a bunch of things I pointed out since i got knee deep in the estimate literally as opposed to their stand back approach. Come to find out from contrators that specialize in insurance repairs, they purposely sumbit low estimates to be awarded the job, start jobs and then resumbit for more money as job continues as they find "more things wrong" that they initally saw, but did'nt note to at least "get in the game". So if you take anything away from insurance jobs, know what to sumbit and when, since it's all just a game you have to learn to play is all LOL!! Wont work for all types of jobs-like your hail damage-but with major problems that need to be addressed-like trees through roofs bid it low and then stop the job until ins company agrees to pay additional charges. It's there way of knowing the job is being performed correctly and not just a check homie deposited for play money.

Gordo · 04-07-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHI

Nope, just the typical-try to get the lowest price possible even though they are most likely sacrificing quality installation and great customer service in the event of an unfortunate mishaps with a product-who knows this could be one of your customers?? and now they're trying to arm themselves to make you cut your own throat so you can work for free??

I hate taking time away family and other obligations to meet with people looking for a section 8 job that shoot down everything we have to offer and in the end waste my time/money tire kicking since a good contractor wont work for free. Nothing in life is free and only people that can afford to go cheap are rich people since they afford to do it twice.

90% of homeowners around here expect you to work for free and I cant tell you the amount of time I've lost with family/freinds/other obligations putting together fair estimates only to be told they want it done for half (exhageration-but "their" price is typically what my operating expenses are which are very very low so I have no room for profit-why be in business with all the associated risks if you cant turn a profit??) since they could have uncle bob's brothers cousin do it for $x on the side. Most of us deal with this mentality Mon-Fri and now we're dealing with it on a contractor forum? That's what DIY and other sites are for if homies want to price shop amoungst themselves. I come here to enjoy the company of fellow tradesmen, talk shop and other issues for a stress relief or ideas when we run into things out of the norm, not to deal with posing homeowners trying to screw over their contractor.

Not trying to make it sound like a personal attack, it's not. Just expressing the opinion as I see it.

I agree with IHI. Seems like there are alot of diyers coming thru here lately and have not been "ushered" over to the other site. I do not run the show here, but I thought this was a place for contractors? Just an opinion. No offense.

IHI · 04-07-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

I agree with IHI. Seems like there are alot of diyers coming thru here lately and have not been "ushered" over to the other site. I do not run the show here, but I thought this was a place for contractors? Just an opinion. No offense.

Think it's an opinon shared by many even if they dont speak up. Not a boys club mentality, but beings how there is a sister sight for DIY hosted by same entity, I see no reason some sort of "screening" process ie background check/waiting period of some sort to prove without a doubt applicant for membership to site is indeed a contractor could'nt be implemented to weed out prying eyes. I think alot more information could be shared amoungst us tradesmen if we knew a "fence" was installed to allow us to do/say what we wanted without fear of screwing each other in the feild cuz some homie read this or that and thinks your prices are too high cuz joe blow in IA does this job for that...and you want 3x's as much-even though WE all demographics play into our pricing. u know what I'm getting at

maj · 04-07-2006, 03:38 PM

Maybe Nat could screen everyone with a test similar to the ones taken by contractors in license required states. NO, I"M NOT BEING SARCASTIC or trying to start another rumble!!

Actually I'm sure Nat already thought of something like this, but wants to keep it open for everyone!

IHI · 04-07-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maj

Actually I'm sure Nat already thought of something like this, but wants to keep it open for everyone!

I'm sure he did up until the time he remembered more hits more money LOL!! so we're once again screwed by "the man" and greed

mad_footer · 04-11-2006, 12:44 PM

Well I am going to weigh in with the point of view of a homeowner and not a contractor. I can certainly understand all your frustration with quite frankly inconsiderate consumers that you would ask you to spend your time pricing out a job so they can farm it out cheaper to someone less skilled and experienced to save a buck.

On the flip side, it is pretty frustrating as a consumer dealing with the construction industry where quite frankly it feels like everything that has to do with pricing is clouded in secrecy. I am getting ready to sign a contract with a builder to build a new custom home. I made a decision sometime ago on a particular builder based upon review of previous work/references/general relationship and without price considerations entering the picture. I now have a contract price from the builder and yet I have no point of reference to determine if the prices being quoted are reasonable for the area. I simply refuse to ask another builder to expend their energy to provide a quote when it will be a waste of their time if the price is similiar. Without alot of publicly available information on materials cost (concrete, lumber, etc.) how I am supposed to gauge my builder's estimate without asking another builder to quote the job?

Bob Kovacs · 04-11-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_footer

Without alot of publicly available information on materials cost (concrete, lumber, etc.) how I am supposed to gauge my builder's estimate without asking another builder to quote the job?

Material costs are easy- go to any local supplier and they'll give you pricing on materials. The harder part to price (and compare between builders) is the labor, overhead, and profit.

If you're concerned about the costs you're getting, pay for someone to review the costs- that can be another builder, an estimating service, or a consultant. It'll give you some peace of mind that you're not getting completely hosed- just don't expect the numbers to match exactly- there's too much variability between companies to have them come in precisely the same.

Bob

marc · 04-11-2006, 04:10 PM

On average my material cost is $200.00 per sq. Of course my siding is $98.00 per sq. I don't know what kind of garbage your buying for $58 but I wouldn't put it on my worst enemies home.
Our installers and subs average $185.00 per sq.
All of these prices I am stating include full strip of old siding, wrapping all windows and doors, soffit, Facia and rakes etc.
So on average our L & M costs are $385.00 per sq. This does not reflect overhead costs or profit.
I would also like to tell you that if your stripping off aluminum siding you will also need to strip off the siding that is und it so you have a double layer strip. At least this is the way we would do it. We don't go over existing siding EVER. When they tell me they want to go over the existing siding I tell them that they are NOT looking at their contractor. We sell more work because of this than any other reason.

**Double-A** · 07-27-2006, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_footer

Well I am going to weigh in with the point of view of a homeowner and not a contractor. I can certainly understand all your frustration with quite frankly inconsiderate consumers that you would ask you to spend your time pricing out a job so they can farm it out cheaper to someone less skilled and experienced to save a buck.

On the flip side, it is pretty frustrating as a consumer dealing with the construction industry where quite frankly it feels like everything that has to do with pricing is clouded in secrecy. I am getting ready to sign a contract with a builder to build a new custom home. I made a decision sometime ago on a particular builder based upon review of previous work/references/general relationship and without price considerations entering the picture. I now have a contract price from the builder and yet I have no point of reference to determine if the prices being quoted are reasonable for the area. I simply refuse to ask another builder to expend their energy to provide a quote when it will be a waste of their time if the price is similar. Without a lot of publicly available information on materials cost (concrete, lumber, etc.) how I am supposed to gauge my builder's estimate without asking another builder to quote the job?

By doing a market analysis of your proposed home, in its proposed location. You're building a custom home. Not buying a sports coat.

Any good appraiser can run the comps for you. Its gonna cost you however.

One more thing. You picked this guy, he didn't pick you. You found him to be the most reasonable choice for your given situation. Why are you second guessing your homework?

dayspring · 07-27-2006, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-A

One more thing. You picked this guy, he didn't pick you. You found him to be the most reasonable choice for your given situation. Why are you second guessing your homework?

Amen and Amen

fredIII · 07-31-2006, 08:10 PM

53 dollars a square ??? home depot **** ? labor & materials should be 450-500 a square on average. stripping is not free, thats another 40-50 a square. yes i'll scrap it but that pays for my time to load & unload my truck & my gas.

ArtisticHomex · 09-03-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredIII

53 dollars a square ??? home depot **** ? labor & materials should be 450-500 a square on average. stripping is not free, thats another 40-50 a square. yes i'll scrap it but that pays for my time to load & unload my truck & my gas.

I long for 2006 again, in indiana we cant get over $350 sq for siding installed even with meter mounts, spicket splits, insulfoam, oct vents etc...