Vinyl Siding J-channel Above Garage Door -- Splice Leaks

Chunkstyle

hi guys --

can any of you please give me any advice regarding how to deal with a seam i've got in the j-channel above my garage door (16'-0 wide)? it's right above a piece of brickmold that previously rotted out, due to (i think) water flowing
through the butt joint gap & soaking into the brickmold & osb sheathing a bit.

i replaced the brickmold last year with the extruded polyurethane foam type
(i personally prefer the extruded vinyl type but, at the time, couldn't find any 16' pieces in my area & had to settle for the softer foam stuff), and during the winter, the foam stuff shrunk excessively around the finishing nails used to install it & cracked. so i've got it opened up again & now have a piece of the "good stuff" to replace it with, but while it's open, i'd like to address the gap in the j channel. it seems like a water problem waiting to happen. the door's in a tall gable-end wall with a large area of siding right above it to catch rainwater -- a lot of potential flow in this spot.

how do you pros close these gaps off when installing j-channel? i thought about caulking it (seems too shoddy & temporary), flashing behind the channel & over the top of the brickmold (like a drip cap) within 2 or 3' of the splice (but water could still get behind it, past the ends of the flashing), notching & lapping the bottom of one j channel into the other (still would let water thru, although not as directly), or sticking a small piece of grace ice & water barrier down into the j channel, forming a waterproof "inner channel" across the splice (still seems kinda non-permanent, though, like caulk).

any advice on how to waterproof these butt joints, since (as far as i know) you can't buy j channel in long enough lengths to span continuously that distance without a splice? i'd appreciate any input you could offer.

thanks!

drew joseph

Grumpy

I didn't read anything other than the title of the thread. The brick mould should have been capped, and when so the header capping should have had a 3" flange at the top to either be taped to the tyvek or tucked under the tyvek. At very least a Z shaped flashing should have been placed over the header to prevent backup.

Vinyl siding is not water tight and is not intended to be water tight which is why proper underlyaments and flashings are necessary to make the system water tight.

Glasshousebltr

Ditto Grump, somebody forgot the z flash.

Bob

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firemike

I always bend up a Z channel or drip edge, and I always overlap and caulk the seam good. If there are only two pieces, I will also pin the center joint (drill a small hole through the nail flanges of the overlap just under the regular elongated holes) and put a little caulk over the hole and run a nail through it to secure that joint. That way it will expand/contract towards each end and you don't have to worry about expansion stress seperating the caulk at the joint.

IHI

Already been said, but I like typing Z flashing on painted lumber if siding a structure or bend flashing into your cap work in capping then tape. Pick your poison. All vinyl siding items be it panels, J, F, utility, etc...were never designed to be water tight ever. That's why you need proper flashing/underlayment installed prior to covering it up.

For the record, is it just me or are more and more guys not covering the gables on new construct with any sort of barrier?? I cant tell you how many siding jobs go up around here with vinyl instlled directly over vertical cedar siding, and new construct homes only get wrapped to top plate. WTF is going on and how is this getting passed?? Think'n I'd be all pizzed off purcashing a new home to have gables start to leak/rot since builder was too cheap to cover it up. Actually installed a patio door on a newer home, builder did not cover the walk out basement wall (wood framed) and ended up removing all the siding and replaceing all the insualtion, 10 studs, all the sheeting, and cutting out all the moldy drywall. And to think these hacks get away with this crap

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slowsol

It's all in the name of production. We are a "certified vendor" for one of the bigger home builders in the area. This basically means that we get calls to go out and fix their mistakes. I'm not kidding you, we get called for problems with 3 out of 5 new houses built by these guys. Within the first few months! No flashing, bad flashing, no underlayment, wrong fasteners, cedar screwed directly through the vinyl siding with no j-channel. It's ridiculous.

One time we were on a job and the the rep met us there. He said that he had 3 different contractors out and they still couldn't fix the leak. When we told him that basically the whole the front of the house needed to be resided, he said "Ok. Well we'll get the materials out here tomorrow. Just bill us." I started laughing out loud and said, "Aren't you worried that your guys just installed this siding and it has to be replaced?" He goes "No. It only takes them about 4 hours to do an entire house. So we can afford to have it redone if we have to." hahahahaha Talk aobut efficiency.

IHI

sloso, now that deal being hooked up with home builders to fix fock ups sounds like a VERY lukrative market, I do alot of work for folks moving into brand new homes and I've yet to meet anybody that is happy with their house, in fact a freind of mine called last night going on and on about the short comings of his new house...amazing all the hacks out there that get away with this crap and keep busy.

Went out to the jobsite today where omish sided it and there were problems areas so the local lumber yard that is acting as a GC authorized us to repair every eyebrow around the house where they did not use J channel by drip edge and shingle area, had scabbed in NUMERIOUS 1" wide siding strips since the bigger pieces ended up being that much too short. They had 2" overlaps on the siding joints, the one gable end there was a very distinct bubble where siding had popped out. Homie said it was'nt noticable when it was cold, but as it got warmer it's been sticking out further. After removing siding to redo J channel we found the panels are just BARELY locked together, they built this place this winter and sided it when it was 10-20* and did not pull up the siding, they just let it hang like you would when you install it in the heat of the summer-it's only gotten into the low 40's and this is happening-just wait till it;s constant 80-100*. Based off finding this I'm positive they will have ALOT of problems this summer once it gets hot with the siding unhooking itself and then couple that with summer winds and you know already what's going to happen.

Still debating whom to notify about this, the lumber yard acting as the GC or telling the home owner who can go back to the GC. Either way I'm trying to work it so we can go back in and strip the entire house to make this right, or at least stay fresh in the homies mind so this summer when large areas are unhooked and blowing off/away we will be the ones he calls to repair it and then we can hit him up to tear off the house. Home is built with the new ICF's so rotting really is'nt an issue, but there will be future problems.

One things certain, 90% of the amish crews in this area should hoefully put themselves out of work and forever change the assumption "they build it right" when in reality this new generation of amish is no better than illegals, undercut everybody and produce CRAP!!! Ask any drywaller around here how they like going into a amish built home and see what the answer is LOL!! They do get'em built quick, but at the expense of zero quality..

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Grumpy

You'd think so huh? I walked away from a few good subdivisions because of litigation. The property manager who hired us wouldn't ask the association president and treasurer to sign an agreement stating that if litigation were to arise we would be paid our hourly rates for testimony.

It was funny really. The sub division was built in stages, about 40 buildings per year for something like 5 years. I was fixing stage one and two which were occupied and they were building stage 3. I walked over to stage 3 and took a look and they were repeating the exact same mistakes we were fixing. It brought joy to my heart to know I had job security and would be fixing those in a year or two.

We made some good money, but you are fixing mistakes on new homes which in the customer's minds shouldn't have mistakes, and the word is sew happy. As soon as litigation gets brought up I walk.

NOW if this were the builder calling me out to fix someone elses F ups BEFORE the the property was occupied and would accept the fact that I am not warrantying the repair work, nor would I have to bid (they'd pay T&M) I'd do it all day.

slowsol

It's not as lucrative as you would think (as previously mentioned)! The company required us to change insurance plans, produce all kinds of paperwork (which isn't a big deal, just a pain in the butt), and even let them undersign the insurance policy! Just so we could go caulk and flash some cookie-cutter homes!

The good thing is that it gives us something to do on slow days and the pay is pretty reasonable (we still bid the job). We could do it as much as we wanted. But we only take a few because it's such a hassle.

There are three things that top the list of things I hate in construction. They are:
1. Following someone else on a job
2. Having homeowners tell me a better way to do something (that they saw on Extreme Home Makeover)
3. Roofing

IHI

We're all going to have paperwork so that's no problem, just pita is all. Insurance should already be in place, yrs ago I finally just upped coverages to cover any "wants" from residential and mainly commercial had so all I have to do is make 1 phone call to my insurance agent to write them on the policy and then handle faxing it over to corporate, so long as proper insurance is in place prior that should be a none issue as well since a phone call only takes a minute or two.

Always nice having back up jobs for those off days or get done too early days. I know we got hooked up with hardee's locally for interior remodeling and repairs as well as exterior updates and like the company you mentioned require all the paperwork, only bad thing is that they only pay once...when the entire job is done. Get's kinda tough sometimes on the larger jobs that take awhile and you have subs knocking on the door wanting to get paid for their services as soon as the truck is loaded up. Only thing I enjoy is being able to work 3rd shift, having the run of the store with no customers under foot to get in our way. Plus during the summer the cool nights make it enjoyable too.

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JustRightCo

Yeah really I know what you guys mean! But those f@#%-up keeps most of us busy in slow season well, and busy season, ok all the time. Yeah code allow us to wrap new construction in tyvek only. But yet they also enforce hurricane straps were theres no hurricanes. Who makes up these codes anyway..

IHI

I dont care what type of building paper is used, I'm just amazed at all the new homes and retroed siding applications where nothing at all is used on walls, but seems gable ends are totally takend out of the mix all together. Just does'nt make ssense since water will get behind siding no matter what type aluminum, steel, vinyl, wood etc...

One day those hurricane ties may come in handy, mother nature does'nt seem to care about statistics or logistics

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JustRightCo

very true indeed. Yeah it might snow in the south one day they are not preped...

losthenfound

Be thankful you now have been educated. Everywhere you have J channel over an opening, water is collecting and shedding behind your siding. The 16 ft length and the fact that J's only come in 12 footers give you the benefit of a dramatic example of what is going on everywhere on your home. Vinyl siding leaks profusely. Accept no siding product that uses J channel and change out everything to a true and properly installed watershedding system as soon as you can.