Unique Siding Job - HELP

tool junkie

Hi all - I need your help...

I have a unique siding job. Its a 2000 sq/ft addition to a 1918 historic home. I am at a loss on how to bid this so I need to at least figure out how much time to expect for this install. Any and all feedback would help me come up with a reasonable project timeline.

We are matching the siding to the old house. The only siding I found to match is redwood. I'm using 8 to 14 ft boards that are only 4" wide. I need 3000 sq/ft which comes to about 10,000 linear ft. The boards are thin and fragile and redwood is soft so over-driving the nails is a constant problem.

I dont have to worry about hitting studs because the entire structure is sheathed but I cant use doubleisided tape to assist because there is tyvek wrap over the entire structure so attachment has to be via fasteners only. I need to use staples cause anything else that fits into a nail gun splits the wood. I know warpage is a future problem with this type of siding so I intend to glue every seam in addition to staples. Every board end joint (remember that there are 10,000 linear ft of boards that are 8 to 14 ft long) will get a 45% overlap cut (no butt joints). After installation, every seam needs to be caulked for paint and I have to do the caulking, thats a bead of caulk 10,000 ft long.

It is one story but the walls are high and the ground is uneven. Cant use scaffolding on around 50% ladders only. There are many steps along the walls due to alcoves and outlets. There are 17 windows. There are exposed rafter ends at very 24" o.c. so I have to cut out for every rafter. Basically everything that can make this difficult is going on.

8 to 10 hr days vary. I have a six man crew.

How log should this take?

neolitic

You said all input...so
I can't help on time but...
That siding should be back primed.
The only caulk should be where you butt
trim, and your scarp joints ("45º overlap joints").
If they want you to caulk the lap (bottom) joints
they are pin-heads! Bad medicine there.
You do want to face nail into studs!
Look for "Maze" ring shank siding nails.
They are made for this application.
Staples sound nutsy-fagen,
nobody would want that on a restoration.
Look for the yellow box "Maze" nails,
they are made not to split
redwood and cedar.
Good luck

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tool junkie

...thanks neo.

I tested 6ds and got spliting. These boards are really thin and delicate. I do plan to back-prime. These boards have a let-in grove under the over-lap where they stack and if the fitment isnt just right you end up with intermittent gaps along the bottom edge, so they asked for caulking to get that seamless look.

I'll look for the maze nails and give it a test.

Patrick

WE normally use stainless ring shanks in a siding gun, Why cant you use pump jacks?

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Jason Whipple

By "sheathed" I expect you mean it's the old 1X plank sheathing that is typical of this era. If anything less, you do need to hit the stud.

I would use the same techniques with butt joints, as was done traditionally in the early 1900's and still today. I think the 45 lap makes no sense. The siding will look just fine with a tight but joint. Hell, it lasted 100 years the last time didn't it? Don't under estimate the old idea's.

I have seen the maze nails neolitic is talking about and they should work great for your application. Unfortunately, I was introduced to them on a Hardie siding job and found they wrinkle up like nothing when it hits concrete board

As far as a good sealant, go with Dyna-flex2000

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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dkillianjr

I second Jason on this one. I would think a tight butt joint would work great. I also recomend the Maze nails as well. I have had very good luck with Maze brand "splitless" nails.


Dave

neolitic

The ones I usually use are "StormGuard", painted, double dipped, ring shank.
They've always come in a yellow box.
http://www.mazenails.com/catalog/cat...GE12&group=SPL
The stainless ring shank might be best with redwood if you're near the coast.

The siding has a rabbet on the bottom?
If it is the stuff I'm thinking of
the only way to go is to nail @ ¼"
above the rabbet. Try it, 1/4
to 3/8 into the fat.
if you go through the thin part it's
stone-guaranteed to split!
Like Jason said the old-timers didn't
do a scarp joint..just butt.
But all the cut ends should get primer
as you nail it up.
Have fun man.

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tool junkie

so I have to buy another tool???!!! COOL

hey guys thanks for all the great info I just ordered from Maze

OK... now...
can you all elaborate futher on how long you think a job like this should take with a group of skilled carpenters. I have 4 good carpenters and 2 helpers.

neolitic

You don't even want to think
about how long it would take a 60 yr-old
(me) to do it!
Can't help there.
Will say once more,
you want to nail to the studs.
Besides being right,
people have had a hundred years
to run all sorts of things between
those studs!
Many nasty surprises to be found there?

Now let some younger guys
brag about how fast they are

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Jason Whipple

I'll take a stab at it. You'll need to post some pic's of the place so we can get the general idea of what you're up against. Hard to guess without seeing how many dormers, type of returns, ground conditions, and so on.

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Jason Whipple

Posted by tool junkie;
"After installation, every seam needs to be caulked for paint and I have to do the caulking, thats a bead of caulk 10,000 ft long."

I hope you're not saying that you intend to caulk the bottom of the siding, are you?

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skymaster

Tool; The other nail type that would work great is Cedar Shake nails. Galv dipped, ring shank, nice small heads, bout 1/4" . Hand nailing tho they dont come for a gun.
Also they make nice coil siding nailers, Bostich, damn nice nails also.
As mentioned above "clapboard" type siding face nailed thru the heavy edge.

neolitic

Wish he had some pix to post.
If this is the stuff I think it is,
no siding nailer is gonna work.
The shanks an heads will all be to fat.
The "splitless" also have a sort of
pre=blunted point, so that they
tear through the fibers instead
of wedging their way through.
This is skill work, light touch nailing...
cant imagine "gunning" it.

Like I said in #2 and Jason said,
the siding lap is the weather proofing.
Caulking the bottom is a no-no,
bad medicine, evil!
You can't pretend that it won't move,
or that it doesn't need to breathe.
A person could almost fill a book
with reasons not to do it.

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tool junkie

tool junkie

There are no dormers but there are numerous outlets and inlets in the architecture.

No doubt this is a brain twister. Lets count 18 outside corners and 14 inside corners and 17 doors and windows and 60 cutarounds between exposed rafter tails. Walls range from 8 to 13 ft high and the ground is uneven so we'll have to use ladders and jacks around much of it, all of which consumes speed.

I'll try to get some pics asap.

neolitic

Thanks, I needed that!
Especially today.

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tool junkie

Neo, I do plan to drive into the studs. What I meant to illustrate regarding the sheathing is that because there is sheathing throughout I can nail inbetween studs as well to inhibit the tendency for warpage in the future, whereby galv narrow crown staples would come into play since I can get them fairly short and not worry about penetrating the sheathing.

These are not beveled clapboards. They are milled redwood rabetted bevel 3.5" tall and only 3/8 thick. Soft little bastards.

neolitic

Hmmm, closest thing I've seen was ½"
for 4" exposure.
Sure would like to see this stuff!
Do you know the mill/manufacturer?
BTW where are you again?

Be a mensch, and add your location
to your profile.

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tool junkie

Any idea how long this should take? We can do this job in vinyl in about a week, or hardi lap or T&G in about two weeks. For this Im guessing 3 to 4 weeks. See I havent worked with this small of a board so I really have no clue. Its a Sh _ _ load of nailing and cuts thats fer sure.

Time anyone???

Jason Whipple

How many gables, how tall? winter conditions?

Pics please!

you really should fill out at least the state in your profile.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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