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05-22-2009, 05:26 PM
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#21
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Professiona Instigator
Trade:
Design Build Remodeling Contractor Washington, DC
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, DC/ Maryland
Posts: 6,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer
Much of what they say is true, exept for the surgical procedure that Gus Dering eluded too.  BTW, you my favorite pimp.  |
My Brother from another Mother
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05-22-2009, 08:47 PM
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#22
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Pro
Trade:
Exterior Finishing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 170
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I might not be driving the felt paper bus but I'm on it!
Felt doesn't mean anything over here though... Tar paper if any of you plan on moving... Or switching citizenship!
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05-22-2009, 08:49 PM
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#23
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Pro
Trade:
Exterior Finishing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 170
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Ps. Any one call it 30minute paper? Or 30min paper?
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05-23-2009, 06:21 AM
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#24
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Pro
Trade:
roofing
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 317
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HOWEVER, WILL 30 LB FELT PAPER ALLOW MOSITURE TO ESCAPE LIKE TYVEK WOULD? I think we would want that for mold prevention?
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05-23-2009, 06:26 AM
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#25
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---
Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davinci
HOWEVER, WILL 30 LB FELT PAPER ALLOW MOSITURE TO ESCAPE LIKE TYVEK WOULD? I think we would want that for mold prevention?
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Tar paper actually allows moisture to escape better than Tyvek. Tyvek traps moisture until it evaporates, then it will pass through. Felt paper will expand and wick moisture through in liquid form.
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand" 
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05-23-2009, 07:54 AM
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#26
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Pro
Trade:
roofing
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 317
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felt paper has tiny holes for moisture to escape like tyvek does?
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05-23-2009, 08:18 AM
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#27
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davinci
felt paper has tiny holes for moisture to escape like tyvek does?
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http://bct.nrc.umass.edu/index.php/p...ky-housewraps/
There has been much testing done and asphalt saturated felt paper has been proven to transfer moisture between the sheathing and housewrap better than Tyvek. Felt paper will actually expand in the presence of moisture and become more permeable, allowing for better drying. This is known as hygroexpansion. The link above is full of interesting test results.
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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05-23-2009, 09:50 AM
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#28
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Pro
Trade:
Carpentry
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 152
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Sometimes the wood tannins dissolve the tyvek too, like cedar. Can't even use it with cedar.
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05-23-2009, 10:16 AM
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#29
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Member
Trade:
Exteriors
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Parksville B.C. Canada
Posts: 55
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Paper all the way............ 
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05-23-2009, 06:18 PM
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#30
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Pro
Trade:
Exterior Finishing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 170
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Nuf said. Settled.
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05-23-2009, 06:26 PM
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#31
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Pro
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 1,861
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most of my jobs are speced for tyvek,and i like the idea of felt and i do understand its advantages but ease of use and tear resistance make it the first wrb i reach for
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05-23-2009, 06:28 PM
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#32
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble
most of my jobs are speced for tyvek,and i like the idea of felt and i do understand its advantages but ease of use and tear resistance make it the first wrb i reach for
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That's OK Tom, I ain't mad at you.
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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05-23-2009, 06:35 PM
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#33
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Pro
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 1,861
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 thanks buddy
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05-30-2009, 08:12 PM
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#34
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Pro
Trade:
General Contractor, Roofing, siding, windows
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: MN
Posts: 1,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer
http://bct.nrc.umass.edu/index.php/p...ky-housewraps/
There has been much testing done and asphalt saturated felt paper has been proven to transfer moisture between the sheathing and housewrap better than Tyvek. Felt paper will actually expand in the presence of moisture and become more permeable, allowing for better drying. This is known as hygroexpansion. The link above is full of interesting test results.
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You are exactly right. Some people think felt is felt, but it's not. It's also NOT a water barrier. It is a moisture barrier at most, but does well to wick away water.
http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/fortif...sk_vs_felt.pdf
Last edited by MJW; 05-30-2009 at 08:57 PM.
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06-02-2009, 10:08 PM
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#35
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Pro
Trade:
Roofer, Remodeler,
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,656
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The lack of flashing causes most problems. I'm surprised loneframer doesn't flash his openings.
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06-03-2009, 05:30 AM
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#36
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinner666
The lack of flashing causes most problems. I'm surprised loneframer doesn't flash his openings.
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?????? You lost me on that one. I don't flash my openings? Define flashing an opening, because I'm at a loss with that statement. 
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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06-03-2009, 05:39 PM
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#38
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinner666
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So would tucking a piece of coil stock behind the bottom flange of the window and lapping it out onto the nailing hem of the siding be considered flashing? Paper behind side flanges, flanges taped, paper over flanges then siding trim installed count as flashing? Paper over taped top flange then window trim considered flashing?
I've seen what happens when siding trim isn't tabbed with flashing onto nailing hem, I go the rest of the way and flash the entire bottom flange of the window. As far as I have personally seen in 25 years, I'm one of two people who flash their windows, corners and soffit/siding intersections.
I don't claim to be a professional sider, but I know I do a more thorough job than most of the "pros" in this neck of the woods.
The fact that you made a claim that I don't flash my windows is insulting.
As a framer, I offer dry-in as an option to the builder. It includes papering and some flashing details at deck and roof intersections. Upon window installation, I ask the GC what detail to leave at the sill location. Most prefer to leave the bottom flange unfastened so that the sider can incorporate his flashing detail as he sees fit.
As for me personally, when the decision is mine to make, I always flash behind the bottom flange, 4" past each side and lap the flashing out onto the siding lock. Same detail happens where a fascia line meets a wall, flashing behind step flashing 18" out and lapped onto nailing hem on siding.
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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06-03-2009, 05:52 PM
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#39
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Pro
Trade:
Carpenter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Saint John, N.B
Posts: 123
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It tyvek all the way over here.
From what i read about moisture problems with tyvek, and some great articles on felt, learned quite a bit about felt paper, thanks guys.
This is why we strap our houses prior to putting the siding on. Not everybody down her does it, but about 85% of the builders do. If you give that barrier from your siding to your wall, you eliminate a lot of the water and moisture that can get at your house. I'm not saying you eliminate 100% of that moisture. It will always get in.
Everything i hear about felt paper here, sorta turns my perspective on it. I personally thought it was the "Old Way" and was out-dated, and didn't offer the same quality's of tyvek. Boy was i wrong!
-Bill
__________________
You laugh because I'm different...........
I laugh cause I just farted!
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06-03-2009, 07:58 PM
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#40
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Pro
Trade:
Roofer, Remodeler,
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 1,656
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Glad to hear you put metal under there. Word from the building department here is that they're going to adopt all my reccomendations soon. Not sure what that means, because they went overboard in Va. with my Ice and Storm specs a few years back. Now, they seem to want it everywhere..
Kinda scary what committees come up with.
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