Super Corner Problems??

softtop95ta

OK we have a problem after 12 years with no problems, I'm getting screwed by a big GC. the problem is that some homes finished four years ago are having problems with there super corners oil canning.All products are certainteed, and beaded siding is used, the problem is not with all the colors but only with ivy green,and granite gray . the clay and desert tan corners do not have the problems to the degree of the other colors. these homes were framed real bad the bowed studs out of plum walls, sills not tight 1/2 gap to block. i have always put only 1 nail tight in each corner to keep it from moving .All other nails were left out 1/8 to allow for movement i have never had this problem. I have ran miles of this stuff and never had a issue . the corners are put on top of band boards and we left 1/4 gap at the top to allow for expansion these corners are all screwed up and its not just the places we did the models that we did not do are also doing the same thing the GC knew of this problem before we even started working for them. Now after 4 years of doing all their siding the GCs job superintendent comes to me and says we are being sued by the homeowners association and I'm going to have sue you !! he asked us to leave and said we will no longer deal with each other . well i have signed contracts on 5 developments with this company!! my warranty is 1 year the problem homes are from 2004 what should i do here ? anyone have problems with these corners? i feel it has something to do with the color ,because i have never had this problem with white . only these dark ones.these corners have been discontinued I'm sure of this they are only available in white or clay. I feel if this product has been discontinued then they must have had a problem with it .

__________________
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonable to the American public....... Teddy Roosevelt

Patrick

YOU need to AS SOON AS POSSIBLE do 2 things. 1st make sure you have a lawyer. And 2nd Get a Certainteed Rep on the job to inspect everything. If your nails are loose, and you nailed every 12" or so as they recommend, I don't see how you could be held responsible.

__________________
Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Patrick

I just re-read this, Who supplied the materials? You really need to get certainteed involved, Find out why they pulled the corners, maybe they will own up to it and pay for the replacement. If the GC supplied materials You should be able to just walk away IMO

__________________
Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

softtop95ta

The gc bought all materials .The certainteed rep came out and said that there are many reasons this could happen . the corners have gutter downspouts screwed through them as well as the handrails for the decks lag bolted through them .This situation is total BS and the owner of the company always raved about how he loved our work .now he says I'm gonna get sued so you have to go and I'm gonna sue you !! told me this while I'm in the middle of a 10 unit town home ,hes like I'm getting someone else to finish this? certainteed offered to replace the corners but the h/o association is suing because the corners color is not available and they wont accept any other color. i know these places were framed very poor and anytime you complained they were like stop whining just put it up!! they paid well and we never ha a problem before it just seems to me they are trying to blame me and cancel our contracts .to save their own a$$ can they just cancel these contrats verbally? im hating this Im talking to a lawyer monday and will see what he says .

__________________
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonable to the American public....... Teddy Roosevelt

oldfrt

Got to agree here
As long as your installation method was correct,than the manufacturer has to fess up to any known problems.

Too bad your losing the contracts here,but it doesn't sound like your fault.
If it's just the darker colors it's obviously the result of the manufacturers not having field tested their product,and coming up with a viable application method for the warmer applications.
I guess that's why the colors aren't available any more!

Seems like the GC is jumping the gun here,but it's probably not all his decision.
Good Luck softtop

__________________
https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-...94183374011504

Patrick

I dont think you have a thing to worry about. Especially if you didnt do the gutters and handrails. I would lawyer up, most specificly to see if you can regain losses from losing your contracts. GC supplied material, forget about you being responsible. As far as the color, see if alcoa will make them as a dream color. big $$$$$$ though

__________________
Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

neolitic

Lawyer!
Sounds like between the
manufacturer, and third parties
improper handling...you're off
the hook.
But ugly stuff rolls downhill,
The lawyer makes sure
it rolls on past you!
Did anyone say LAWYER?
Good luck with that on Sunday though.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

Brock

First of all, you are talking about vinyl siding. Are these homes mobile homes (do they have tires underneath them). Did you install this in a factory or on-site. I have seen alot of mobile homes on the lot for sale and they all have it installed on it from the factory so this is a bit confusing.

Second, if you put this on 4 years ago and they were coventional construction (surely no builder would sell vinyl on new homes in this century!)wouldn't these homes have a myriad of other problems with this type of siding by now? Like fading, dirt penetration, holes from hail storms, pieces blown off from wind etc? If this is the case I feel sorry for all three of the parties involved.

We have a lot of missing info to go by here.

neolitic

Which parts of his posts
did you choose to ignore,
and which did you actually read?
Sort of a random process for you?

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

Brock

yep re-read the post and it read the same but now have more questions. one that is glaring to me is how can the guttering be screwed through the corner? why is the corner over the fascia? the whole thing wreaks of hackness.some pics would be very helpful.[quote]

shoemaker

Reading comprehension 101:
"the corners have gutter downspouts screwed through them as well as the handrails for the decks lag bolted through them"

Not gutter.
Downspouts!

The super corners have been discontinued by many manufacturers and the ones that are still available are usually white only.
Get some other manufacturers to give you written reasons for the discontinuation.
Certainteed will have to swallow the blame.

72chevy4x4

[quote=Brock;374913]yep re-read the post and it read the same but now have more questions. one that is glaring to me is how can the guttering be screwed through the corner? why is the corner over the fascia? the whole thing wreaks of hackness.some pics would be very helpful.

maybe a re-reread is in order-the poster indicated downspouts were screwed through the corners- you can't pin any 'hackiness' on siding contractor for this one point. I wonder if the downspouts are actually screwed through the corners or are 'hung' on the corners-it makes a difference. as for the lag screw-are the problems only present on the corners with lag screws?

the darker colors have well known issues with heat build up. if a corner is taken down, does it retain the oil canned look?

shoemaker

Yes.

softtop95ta

[quote=72chevy4x4;374972]Yes the dark corners stay oil canned ,all corners seem to be affected on these homes

__________________
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonable to the American public....... Teddy Roosevelt

72chevy4x4

I'm not sure of this, but wouldn't that fact make the case for material issues and NOT installation issues?

shoemaker

Well I've seen oil canning from heat,that was admitted by Alcoa reps.This actually changed their warranty description for the product in question.
I've seen oil canning caused by poor installation that was rectified by removing the panels and replacing.(the panels that were oil canned were not reusable)

The way Softtop95 described his installation and resulting problems,I would agree it's material/color related 100%.Why else are the products discontinued?

Biggest problems with oil canning is material installed during the winter months.
The biggest hurdle for him would be to prove the installation is not suspect.If he followed the manufacturers installation specs,the case has no legs.
Find a copy of Certainteed installation instructions,take pictures and there is no need for a lawyer.Just my opinion though.

shoemaker

Looks like the HO is out of luck and should release the builder and installers from blame.
They can ask for a replacement,but what is available and not necessarily the same product or color.
From Certainteed's warranty :

"This warranty does not apply to vinyl siding which has been painted, varnished or similarly
coated over the manufacturer’s original finish (unless the coating is authorized by CertainTeed
pursuant to this warranty), or vinyl siding which has been distorted or melted due to an
external heat source (including, but not limited to a barbecue grill, fire, or reflection from
windows, doors, or other objects).
CertainTeed reserves the right to discontinue or modify any of its products, including the color,
without notice to the homeowner/consumer, and shall not be liable as a result of such
discontinuance or modification, nor shall CertainTeed be liable in the event the replacement material
may vary in color or gloss in comparison to the original product as a result of normal weathering. If
CertainTeed replaces any material under this warranty, it may substitute products designated by
CertainTeed to be of comparable quality or price range in the event the product initially installed has
been discontinued or modified."

nlgutters

i would ask how it got this far? most people just don't go straight to sueing people. did the contractor call you and u never went out and tried to fix? did the builder completly ignore the home owners on this. i can't see how this just came out of the blue and he fired you.I would think a decent builder would relize that it may not of been your fault. maybe he made up the suing thing so you would be gone and he could blame you for the whole thing?

neolitic

Does anyone here ever
READ these things before
they reply??

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

softtop95ta

yes it seems he wants to put the blame on us alright .He needs a scapegoat now because this has been going on for years we have replaced some of the homes corners and it wasn't a problem for us to do that while replacing them we saw that there was no tight nails or problems with our installation in any way it is defiantly a material issue and a issue that has been evident for years on these top dollar poorly built homes .The home owners want them fixed with the same color and its not possible so they want to sue the GC and **** rolls down hill so he comes and pulls me to the side and says .WE CANNOT USE YOU ANYMORE.I get the impression he is going to say we are gone its our fault and try to save his own ass . I'm not worried about the him suing me crap were not to blame what sucks is the 5 developments we have signed contracts for that he just Say's we wont do and pack it up see ya later .CAN YOU JUST BREAK A CONTRACT LIKE THAT ??? We are talking talking a few thousand homes here not just 3 or 4 town homes but 5 entire developments !!!

__________________
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonable to the American public....... Teddy Roosevelt