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04-26-2009, 09:55 PM
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#21
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble
its because for a long time the only thing that mattered was speed and getting the check from the homeowner.Most of the siding contractors ive worked for over the years didnt want me to take the time to do things right the first time,they just wanted to get paid now and worry about fixin the screwups later.Its really the reason im in my own buisness today,guy has to be proud of the work he does imo,even if its being proud of work nobody will ever see
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Framing falls into the same category. Many framers don't care to square the building, they'll trust the block walls. Many just eyeball the walls after plumbing the corners. Very few will check for bad studs on punchout. I'll be the first to tell you, I take longer than some guys to get things right, but at the end of the job we walk away even, because I'm not dealing with someone elses mistakes all the way to the top. 
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand" 
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04-27-2009, 12:03 AM
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#22
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Pro
Trade:
Siding, Windows, Seamless Gutters, Metal Roofing
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble
the thing with the siding buisness is hacks are taught by other hacks,hell sometimes its passed down from father to son,speed and a wipe down for finger prints are sometimes more highly prized than durability
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Ha, one of the lines our instructor for VSI used was "just because your grand daddy showed your father to do it this way doesnt mean thats the right way to do it"
__________________
Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.
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04-29-2009, 06:55 PM
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#23
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Pro
Trade:
General Contractor, Roofing, siding, windows
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: MN
Posts: 1,089
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There are hacks and there are cheap un-educated homeowners. Who is to blame?? Most of the time we don't know.
Sometimes even educated homeowners still just care about when it gets done, how fast, and how cheap....after all it's just siding or just shingles..
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04-29-2009, 08:18 PM
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#24
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Pro
Trade:
Exterior Finishing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 170
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Siding should be 80% sealing the building and 20% Cosmetics.
With that 20% the house should still look as damn good as any other house done right.
I still see siding guys and rock guys who don't have any idea about keeping that positive lap throughout, whether it be paper or flashing. That's the first thing my new guys have to learn, and they won't do a damn thing else until they do. By far the most important thing for sealing a house.
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05-04-2009, 06:46 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 18
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05-04-2009, 07:00 PM
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#26
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Pro
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 1,856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siding guy23
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ah.. yea thanks for the insite actually its more than just the paper its the system as a whole and how everything interacts with each other that makes a successful installation
Last edited by tomstruble; 05-04-2009 at 08:12 PM.
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05-09-2009, 07:53 AM
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#27
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Member
Trade:
Framing
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 93
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BEST RULE OF THUMB TO TELL HO...
I can do it fast, cheap and good.
You can now pick 2 out of 3
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05-09-2009, 04:29 PM
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#28
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble
ah.. yea thanks for the insite actually its more than just the paper its the system as a whole and how everything interacts with each other that makes a successful installation |
I agree, paper is critical, but it must work in conjunction with proper flashing and siding details. If all three systems are not working in concert with each other, there will be a failure, guaranteed. Properly installed siding will shed water, but it will not prevent wind driven rain and the positive and negative pressures that go along with it from causing problems, paper and flashing are the only line of defense in these conditions. 
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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05-09-2009, 05:09 PM
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#29
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Lack Of All Trades
Trade:
Professional handyman services
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 893
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Darn you loneframer! You pulled perfectly good siding off to expose OSB without feltpaper...
WHY???
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who dat is?
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05-09-2009, 07:07 PM
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#30
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Pro
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 1,856
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funny thing is that ive pull down vinyl with nothing behind it and the sheathing looked brand new 
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05-09-2009, 07:13 PM
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#31
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Pro
Trade:
Exterior Finishing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble
funny thing is that ive pull down vinyl with nothing behind it and the sheathing looked brand new |
...and then went ahead installing the siding without sealing the house...
totally the way to go. (IMO )
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05-09-2009, 07:20 PM
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#32
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin
Darn you loneframer! You pulled perfectly good siding off to expose OSB without feltpaper...
WHY??? |
A little gremlin called water infiltration. 
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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05-09-2009, 07:21 PM
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#33
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Pro
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 1,856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojigga
...and then went ahead installing the siding without sealing the house...
totally the way to go. (IMO ) |
huh?
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05-09-2009, 07:23 PM
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#34
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble
funny thing is that ive pull down vinyl with nothing behind it and the sheathing looked brand new |
That is because there was no Tyvek to trap moisture between IT and the sheathing. 
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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05-09-2009, 07:30 PM
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#35
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,595
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There was not much water damage to the sheathing in this case either, but it didn't prevent the water from rolling out of the gas fireplace. Of coarse, it only happened when it rained. 
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
Last edited by loneframer; 08-15-2009 at 05:55 AM.
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05-10-2009, 07:05 AM
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#36
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Pro
Trade:
General Contractor, Roofing, siding, windows
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: MN
Posts: 1,089
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If you have OSB, you have moisture no matter what. Problem is, that the water is not on the wall....it is in the wall. OSB doesn't breathe and doesn't dry from the inside out.
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05-10-2009, 08:05 AM
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#37
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Pro
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 1,856
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with all the layers of waterproof glue in plywood id question its ability to ''breathe'' also. Maybe the reason with alot the osb problems [besides the crummy nail holding] are because of the shoddy workmanship seen in this thread.Which most likely are the result of a hurry up and get it done mindset
In those pic of Loneframers i think most of the problem was caused by a poor chimney cap,which really is the fireplace guys detail.
Around here they use a galvanized sheet metal that rustout in a few years
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05-10-2009, 08:10 AM
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#38
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble
with all the layers of waterproof glue in plywood id question its ability to ''breathe'' also. Maybe the reason with alot the osb problems [besides the crummy nail holding] are because of the shoddy workmanship seen in this thread.Which most likely are the result of a hurry up and get it done mindset
In those pic of Loneframers i think most of the problem was caused by a poor chimney cap,which really is the fireplace guys detail.
Around here they use a galvanized sheet metal that rustout in a few years
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The cap was definitely the culprit, I replaced it with a heavy gauge aluminum one that counterflashed the siding and cornerposts. I just believe the siders should have done more to manage the water properly.
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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05-10-2009, 08:15 AM
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#39
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Trade:
residential framing/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 3,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
If you have OSB, you have moisture no matter what. Problem is, that the water is not on the wall....it is in the wall. OSB doesn't breathe and doesn't dry from the inside out.
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I always gap me sheathing no matter what it is, the gapping inadvertantly aids the ability of the wall to breathe and expel moisture.
Just a framing CARPENTERS view on the matter.
__________________
" It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand"
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05-10-2009, 08:23 AM
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#40
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Pro
Trade:
siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 1,856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer
The cap was definitely the culprit, I replaced it with a heavy gauge aluminum one that counterflashed the siding and cornerposts. I just believe the siders should have done more to manage the water properly. |
oh i definitely agree,theres a way that it should have been done and it wasnt,simple as that,you never know when your work is going to be removed by someone,and it dosnt really matter why, but if what you did wasnt right you look like the hack.Which i guess you are if you do work like that
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