Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?

 
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:26 PM   #1
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Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


We started setting windows Friday....Since I started we've used I&W as a 'sill pan' membrane....we cover the sill, run down the wall 6-8" sliced the corners, ran up the jamb then used seperate pieces to finish the corner detail. Siliconed the nailing flange, and taped the flange to the house wrap.

We have scraps of grace I&W on the job (as far as we were concerned, perfect). We went about things as usual. We were even using a heat gun in the cold weather to ensure that we had a good bond.

PM (same PM we've had for 20 years) shows up and tells us we're doing it all wrong. He adamently stressed that we should be using the 'window tape' designed for this application. We've set hundreds of windows the same way without question. There was no question about our detailing, but the product.

The same guy is having us DOUBLE layer the I&W on the roof....

I would never argue against using a superior product, or changing procedure...perhaps he's right, ok, but he talked to us like we have no idea about anything.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:43 PM   #2
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


You're not using Tri-Built I&W are you? Holy **** that stuff is thin. And would barely stick to the sheathing even on a hot day. I was tempted to double it up on a roof i used it on, but it was a rental property. Never again.

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Old 01-17-2010, 02:54 PM   #3
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


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You're not using Tri-Built I&W are you? Holy **** that stuff is thin. And would barely stick to the sheathing even on a hot day. I was tempted to double it up on a roof i used it on, but it was a rental property. Never again.
Nope...Grace...part of the discussion was that grace is too thick. If you've ever used that stuff in the heat it is nearyl impossible to work with, the stickiest crap I've ever dealt with.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:54 PM   #4
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


well i don't know maybe he is right maybe you should use the product that was designed for that,so you don't have compatibility issues

how are you doing the corners?butterfly?
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:40 PM   #5
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


me i like to install a rip on bevel siding on the rough sill and use tyvek flex wrap,its a little pricey but it does the job with no seams in the corners

i like to install the flashing tape on the sides directly to the flange and the sheathing,its a good idea to wrap the side tape onto the window 1/4'' or so and roll everything with a j roller

some guys are now wraping the flashing tape on the sides and heard of the r.o first then installing the window then the outside flanges

i don't usually caulk the flange to the wall with this method,Ive never been very successful doing it without ultimately just making a mess
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:39 PM   #6
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


I've been holding off trying to say this but no more your PM is (positively madd) 20 years huh, sounds like the peter principle

Been fallowing WNY since I joined this forum and really like your style a man that comes to work everyday ready for the next challenge is cut out of the good stock.

It sounds like you know how to detail a window install. If the pm wanted to use the new expensive stuff to detail the windows it should have arrived on the job with the windows or before. With an explanation on what he envisioned. proactive not reactive.
Maybe his head is still spinning from the moister in the shell.
I know you guys have been dealing with allot on this job but it is not the first snowy Dec. in upstate NY.
This project seems real top heavy and he is probably caught in the middle not a place he is use to.
I know going in how excited you were about the opportunity to build something so unique and devour every detail only to have all these head cases trying to make this their launching pad to the big time.

A carpenter with your fortitude would be welcome on my site any day.

Good luck and work safe
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:22 PM   #7
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


absolutly agree.. wny

doesn't mean pm wasn't right
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:10 PM   #8
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


we have been using 6" grace vycor for a couple years, the 6" gets run along the sil 3" into the ro and 3" down the face, then wraps up teh side about 6" with a slash 1" up the jack then we stretch it the face peice down and out which creates a bit of a trough, then a 4" strip up both sides into the opening. we then caulk the sides and top of the ro set the window and run 4" vycor over the side nailing flanges then 6" along the top. we leave the bottom unsealed so in the event water does get in it can get back out.

after its all sealed we then install metal flashing which is back caulked along the top and sides
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:18 PM   #9
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


The PM is probably correct, because to have any kind of warranty from the manufactures you have to follow their instructions to the letter wrong or right.

Its just CYA, he should have told you or had in the contracts and drawings how they wanted it done.

If I were a sider, I would make the contractor come up with the flashing details they want to use so you can CYA if there are problems.

Of course it should be one of the Best Practices.

I know what you all are going to say about this, but if it leaks, it is better to have done it like they told you to it, than it is to have done it your way.
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:40 PM   #10
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


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The PM is probably correct, because to have any kind of warranty from the manufactures you have to follow their instructions to the letter wrong or right.

Its just CYA, he should have told you or had in the contracts and drawings how they wanted it done.

If I were a sider, I would make the contractor come up with the flashing details they want to use so you can CYA if there are problems.

Of course it should be one of the Best Practices.

I know what you all are going to say about this, but if it leaks, it is better to have done it like they told you to it, than it is to have done it your way.
I agree, and we'll do whatever is asked of us, and had we known the new procedure there wouldn't have been a problem. We stopped production and the new material has been ordered....What I'd like to see happen is have the PM demonstrate exactly how he would like it done.

There's a lot of flashing systems out there, they're relatively new, but we're aware of them.....The catch is...and I almost started a new thread about this....we are in the process of implementing a "Book Of Strandards" for our company. It just so happens we have one page so far 'designed' by our PM and it is window installs....LOL....

I'm the first one to admit that I have a lot to learn....I spend my free time as entertainment on CT. His patronizing style, and constant micro-managing is insulting!
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:05 PM   #11
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffatsquan View Post
I've been holding off trying to say this but no more your PM is (positively madd) 20 years huh, sounds like the peter principle

Been fallowing WNY since I joined this forum and really like your style a man that comes to work everyday ready for the next challenge is cut out of the good stock.

It sounds like you know how to detail a window install. If the pm wanted to use the new expensive stuff to detail the windows it should have arrived on the job with the windows or before. With an explanation on what he envisioned. proactive not reactive.
Maybe his head is still spinning from the moister in the shell.
I know you guys have been dealing with allot on this job but it is not the first snowy Dec. in upstate NY.
This project seems real top heavy and he is probably caught in the middle not a place he is use to.
I know going in how excited you were about the opportunity to build something so unique and devour every detail only to have all these head cases trying to make this their launching pad to the big time.

A carpenter with your fortitude would be welcome on my site any day.

Good luck and work safe
You described the PM perfectly....granted, his a$$ is on the line. He's my boss so it's his way.

Without a doubt, with such a cool project everyone wants a piece of the credit! We have the focused attention of the entire company so taking the good with the bad I know who's running the saw.

If the best upper management can find is sill flashing we're doing good!

You gave me the best compliment I could ask for, Thank You!!
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:38 PM   #12
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


I threw in some pics of how i just did one recently. We didn't have any Flex Flash for the pan so i bent it on my brake and extended it into the finished wall. Ran 4" flashing down the sides extending down past the pan 4" or so. Ran the top then brought the tyvek out over and didn't tape it so water could get out. I also filled in the brick and then Preferred brick staining Stained all the brick on the house.

I really liked this little job i got to do a little bit of everything over the course of about a week.

On another note it sounds like the PM is being a little anal but what are you going to do. He is protecting his A** but he doesn't really know the method behind the madness so he calls the shots from a seat where he can't see the whole field.
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Sill Pan flashing/window prep?-kam.jpg   Sill Pan flashing/window prep?-brick.jpg   Sill Pan flashing/window prep?-kamnikar.jpg  
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:08 PM   #13
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


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Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post

some guys are now wraping the flashing tape on the sides and heard of the r.o first then installing the window then the outside flanges
Yup, we wrap the RO with butyl tape before & after window installation too. Every year, we're guaranteed a tropical storm, at the very least, so we feel it's worth it. And, peeps always leave the windows open, go to the beach, it rains....
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:11 PM   #14
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Re: Sill Pan Flashing/window Prep?


Not sure if you guys have seen this company, but 'Weather Out Flashing' makes some cool stuff(You'll have to google it since they won't let me post the link). I have used the door pan flashing a couple of times. Depending on what you have for a finished floor on the inside the lip can be a pain. Haven't used the window pans yet so I can't speak to those but they are definitely be cheaper than the Flexwrap.

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