Siding master--new install--anyone see it? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

advanced_energy · 05-29-2009, 04:40 PM

anyone see a product called "siding master"? vertical strips are applied on the side of the home and the siding clips into it;no nials..any opinions? is it something that more people will do?

jumbo · 05-30-2009, 06:57 AM

I got a sample package of it a few years ago, video included. I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone actually using it. I must say though, somebody spent alot of time and money to develope the system (just not sure why).

Sidingmaster · 06-01-2009, 08:21 PM

I am the inventor of this system. It has been installed successfully in over 20 states now. The home owners love it because they don't have to deal with contractors that nail tight or incorrectly align siding. The jobs look far superior to the company that nails siding. It also provides a drainage plane to drain the moisture out. The new IRC WRB 703.1 code states that cladding should provides a means of drainage. If you would have an open mind and try this system sometime maybe you would think twice before putting down a product you have never used. You will be seeing it a lot more throughout the next few years. Any body that installs siding for a living knows it is not realistic to think that you can nail every single nail perfectly every single time into every single stud like you are supposed to do. If you do not do this then you are voiding the manufactures warranty. If you know any thing about building science you should know that by creating a rain screen behind cladding is the Best Practices way of installing siding. This technology is backed up by agencies such as US Department of Energy, HUD and many other experts. There is new data out about nailed siding causing moisture damage but I guess that you do not keep up with this new data. The companies that keep up to date about what is going on with the industry are the leaders and will make the money because they are doing the right thing for the consumer and their company and not just slapping up siding as fast as they can so they can get to the next job.

WarnerConstInc. · 06-01-2009, 08:44 PM

Awesome!

thesidingpro · 06-01-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidingmaster

I am the inventor of this system. Oh by the way it has been installed successfully in over 20 states now. The home owners love it because they don't have to deal with contractors that nail tight or incorrectly. The jobs look far superior to the company that nails siding. It also provides a drainage plane to drain the moisture out. Obviously you must be one of those contractors that thinks he nails every single nail perfectly every single time into every single stud. Anybody in this industry who knows what they are talking about knows that never happens. This is WHY i came out with the system.

When I personally install yes everynail is perfect. Trust me. I'm "the"sidingpro.

I am curious as to pricing.

I just don't see you up selling this to the vinyl siding buyer. MY labor would be higher plus your system would put it close to the costs of fiber cement.

Sidingmaster · 06-01-2009, 08:53 PM

I am curious as to pricing. Before I research more about this pricing is a big factor. Please send me a pm.

I am sorry. I just got on this board. How do I PM you.

Sidingmaster · 06-01-2009, 08:57 PM

[quote=Sidingmaster;691298]I am curious as to pricing. Before I research more about this pricing is a big factor. Please send me a pm.

The great thing about this is you can hire more affordable labor. This in itself can pay for the system and still make you competitive. Plus we have a reflective house wrap that goes with this as a system that qualifies for the 2009 Tax credit. Home owners love this. I just wrote a $55,000 deal today because of this system. I beat out insulated siding as well as many of the competitors and I was higher in price.

thesidingpro · 06-01-2009, 09:19 PM

The labor more affordable is a sham.

Someone would have to do a few jobs before they could install this. I don't have time to teach anymore so I hire experienced employees.

You might have a few advantages but I don't think many people would pay the premium.

Click on my username and you will see the optiong for "private message". Or you can advertise the costs here in the public forum.

neolitic · 06-01-2009, 11:36 PM

He can't PM til he hits
a certain post count.
Keeps spammers from
swamping us.

thesidingpro · 06-01-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

He can't PM til he hits
a certain post count.
Keeps spammers from
swamping us.

I see said the blind man.

My contact info is on my website www.buesking.com.

I would love some more info. I get alot of weird jobs and one day this could be the answer for one.

advanced_energy · 06-02-2009, 07:13 AM

is this the system thats being used with "eliminator 29xl"?

tomstruble · 06-02-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by advanced_energy

is this the system thats being used with "eliminator 29xl"?

no i dont think so,im also not covinced that vinyl siding needs a rainscreen,plus i believe vinyl siding needs a solid backing behind it,not just clipped to firring strips.How does this product affect the manufacturers guarantee?

thesidingpro · 06-02-2009, 06:19 PM

I agree tom.

The only thing I would use this for would be when I had to use furing strips anyway.

Sidingmaster · 06-03-2009, 06:46 AM

Let me ask all of you this. On a reside do you hit every single stud when nailing your vinyl? If you say yes I find this very hard to believe. If you say no then you are voiding the manufactures warranty. I would like to see some photos of your work with photos of a wall looking straight down the wall. How do you correct an uneven wall? Please answer these questions and I will be more than happy to respond to you. I have been in this business for over 30 years and have yet to see an installer that installs siding perfectly every single job. All you have to do is drive down the street and look at walls that have been sided. 9 out of 10 will be wavy and not straight. As far as vinyl siding needing a rainscreen, if you have ever went back to one of your installations after a heavy rain and shook the panel you will see that water comes out of the siding. Take a piece of plexiglass and attach a piece of vinyl siding to it, run water behind the panel and see for yourself how the water gets trapped at the nailing hem and middle of the panel where it sits against the plexiglass. It does NOT all drain out the weep holes. If water is allowed to stay behind the siding then it will soak into the substrate. There is a new report out about how siding traps moisture. Vinyl retained the most moisture and did not fully drain out. It is not me that is giving you this opinion but it is the building science experts that are.

advanced_energy · 06-03-2009, 07:07 AM

simple,
alsides 25' has a solid pvc reinforcement bar attatched to the upper part of their siding.this ensures a straight line throughout. i have had tremendous success with it.

Sidingmaster · 06-03-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by advanced_energy

simple,
alsides 25' has a solid pvc reinforcement bar attatched to the upper part of their siding.this ensures a straight line throughout. i have had tremendous success with it.

That is a great panel you use, but most siding contractors do not use this panel. Do you hit the studs every single time and nail every nail perfectly every single time? Can you post some photos as requested looking down a wall of some of your jobs? I would be curious to see these photos. I am not saying that all contractors install siding incorrectly, just most of them.

Sidingmaster · 06-03-2009, 07:49 AM

This is just one of the new reports about siding and moisture. A.S.T.M. summery of report below. They clearly state that furring strips, drainage boards or drainage mats out perform house wrap, felt

Evaluating Drainage Characteristics of Water Resistive Barriers as Part of an Overall Durable Wall Approach for the Building Enclosure

Williams MF
(Received 29 August 2007; accepted 20 June 2008)
JOURNAL JAI
Abstract

The most recent model residential building code has been modified to require increased use of water/weather resistive barrier (WRB) materials in construction, and to require some means of draining water from the building enclosure. However, “drainage” performance is not defined, and the Code is unclear about which currently available WRB products and design approaches help provide a durable water-resistant exterior wall enclosure. The present work is a qualitative, “order of magnitude” study of the drainage characteristics of various types of WRB materials (felts, housewraps, drainage wraps, drainage boards, and furring strips), and is a “first step” toward developing an overall durable wall approach for the building enclosure. The ASTM E2273 drainage efficiency test was used in 40 wall assembly mockups to evaluate 11 WRB materials in 8 design configurations. Traditional WRBs and housewraps provided little or no drainage capability to the exterior wall designs tested. Drainage-enhanced housewraps provided an improved level of drainage, but they still retained water. The retained water can migrate through fastener holes to the underlying construction. Best drainage performance was obtained by using WRBs with furring, drainage mats, and profiled sheets (drainage boards). These overall results are in general agreement with similar research by others. These results can guide designers and builders in the proper selection and use of such materials, which should be used as part of an overall durable wall approach to protecting the building enclosure.

thesidingpro · 06-03-2009, 03:58 PM

If your claim to fame is calling out installers that don't hit every stud your not going to get far with me.

The first thing I used to teach my guys is to hit every stud. It's the basics of all siding installations. It doesn't matter what material your installing. You always hit the studs.

Since you won't contact me with pricing tell us how much this system adds to a project. 10%? 30%

My install techniques are way more advanced than the vsi general instructions that I really could not use this anyway without going back to the basics.

For bows and waves in the wall they are easily taken care by hand nailing.

I don't see you getting far with this until mastic, vytec, royal, and the others will stand behind it.

thesidingpro · 06-03-2009, 04:18 PM

btw. Your site needs some work. It's impossible to view the videos and I have a fast connection.

Your navigation bar is annoying and that guy on the front page makes me cringe.

neolitic · 06-03-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesidingpro

btw. Your site needs some work. It's impossible to view the videos and I have a fast connection.

Your navigation bar is annoying and that guy on the front page makes me cringe.

X2