Question On Siding Insurance Claim

 
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:47 PM   #21
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


To answer your question it is true and Untrue. Some Mfg.s change them out sooner and some later. The biggest issue will be if the carrier states that they found a match, then it is the carriers responsibility to tell the homeowner where it can be bought. If they cant match it (which is usually the case) they are required to tell the HO as well. I was working Minnesota last summer and siding was a huge issue there. Especially in the area I was working. We took samples on every house that had damage to siding, which was about 75% of the homes in a 2 sq mile area. Bad part was that 70% could be matched. Now mind you, if you have siding that is completely smooth and the size and overall color can be matched even with a different Mfg. the carrier can claim that it can matched and be repaired, not replaced.

You as a contractor can challenge the carriers findings, you just have to make sure your right. Another thing You as a contractor are not required to do is drive long distances to pick it up unless the carrier wants to pay for it. Sometimes the carrier would say its in the next town over, which might be 50 miles away, That is way unreasonable. Tell the adjuster it will have to be shipped at the carriers expense. They dont like that very much and if its not a large amount they will usually cave.

Other thing to consider also is that sometimes homeowners have left overs from their last siding job. Which will screw you as the contractor if the adjuster finds out and its a small area that is damaged like a gable end. Sucks to sell a homeowner then find out they had left overs. I ran into that alot.

Now from a Contractors standpoint. I like to challenge the carrier on it. I also like to challenge adjusters when they tell me there is no siding damage when I know there is. If you have never used the water trick, learn it now. Its pretty easy to do. Just spray the siding down with water, if it has hail dents they will stand out like a sore thumb. Water creates a mirrored effect and the dents become very visible. I pissed a manager off in 2008 (St.Louis storm) when I had to wrap an entire two story house that had hail damage to the siding but not the roof. Hail was relatively small, and the roof was a 6mo. old impact resistent. Siding was a white cedar grained patter that was 20 years old. You couldnt see the dents in the sunlight due to the oxidation. I hosed it down and it had the snot beat out of it. Looked like swiss cheese. Needless to say I made the homeowner very very happy. Especially since the siding was old and a two story.

Hope that helped. When in doubt challenge the carriers findings.

Last edited by adjustertrainer; 01-28-2010 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:17 PM   #22
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


do they ever pay to paint the siding to get a color match?
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:37 PM   #23
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


tom, I have seen a carrier instruct an adjuster to inform the HO that they would pay to paint the siding, but it was because the siding had already been painted once (cream to what my wife calls Titty Pink). If i remeber correctly the pattern, size and original color was matched due to a mfg code printed on the back, but because the homeowner had painted it the carrier had to pay to have the new installation painted to match. Wasnt one I was working though, Personally I have never had them paint siding, as a contractor or as an adjuster.

On a different note, if the siding is damaged check the casing around every window. There was a problem in minesota when a mfg went out of business. Caused state farm to replace a butt load of windows up there, or I should say pay for them. Dont know how many actually replaced them. I had one property I asked S.F to pay for roughly $40K of casement windows, which included interior wood and stain. Made the contractor happy.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:32 PM   #24
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


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do they ever pay to paint the siding to get a color match?
during our hail storm in june of '07, for any of my customers that had aluminum siding that was damaged on only one or two sides, i would ask the adjuster for power washing and paint. i usually got it.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:54 PM   #25
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


Dan, I am sure they would have been more than happy for a power wash an paint. The carriers probably loved you. You saved them lots and lots of moolah. As an adjuster if I could document the damage I NEVER had a admin. manager challenge me on replacement even if it was just the damaged side, with state farm if we couldnt match, the house got wrapped.

Dont short change yourself or your clients. If I am the contractor I want the carrier to perform their duties to replace any damaged area to put it back the way it was before the storm.

If I have doubts about what the carrier is telling me then I challenge them. Most contractors may or may not know about a service called ITEL. Some of the carriers use them for their matching service on carpet, shingles, siding, etc.. ITEL is known throughout the insurance industry because of their service. They have a facility in florida that has a sample of just about every piece of siding every made, every shingle and carpet. As a contractor I can use them too if I dont trust what the carrier is telling me. Costs me a small fee but it can be well worth it.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:56 PM   #26
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


I found the alum. siding but it only comes in 1 color and that is white. However in my case the Homeowners home is green. And it is only availible on a special order bases, full squares and no returns. So can I bill St Farm for having to paint the siding to match?
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:06 PM   #27
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


first of all, let me thank you for sharing this valuable information. i'm sure most of us could use the help in this area.please bear with me, as that 6/8/07 storm broke my cherry as far as insurance work is concerned.

around here there were LOTS of houses re-sided w/ 8" smooth aluminum back in the 60's-70's. just about all of it in pretty bad shape by the time '07 rolled around. my goal was to replace with vinyl.

if i could show damage on 3 sides, they would buy the whole house. if i couldn't find damage on the 3rd side, they would only buy aluminum replacement on only the damaged elevations. more often than not, that 3rd side was tough, even using the water test.

it was in those situations that i would ask for power wash and paint on the entire house (and anything else i could find) in order to pump enough money into the project to rewrap the whole house with vinyl.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:04 PM   #28
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


Kevins question first, If the owners siding is green the carrier has one of two choices if its damaged, pay to have the white painted to match or pay for the special order, if it comes in full square and you only need 3/4 of a square then the carrier should eat the extra cost. They may not like it but they have to put it back to what it was before. Remember if they say its available then it has to be in the quantity needed, if it requires more because a special order you just need to explain that to the adjuster, if the home owner is ok with a paint job I might pitch it to the carrier. I will probably save them money. Thats the key, they always will select the cheepest route and then try to keep the HO happy. If they can get both done in one fell swoop then they are goldent. Ask for paint and then explain why. Worst case scenario a manager gets involved and you will explain it again. Either way I think you and the HO win.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:21 PM   #29
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


Now for Roofer Dan, your welcome and no problem. The storm you are referring too was nasty one to break a cherry on. All kinds of issues that year. Sound like you were dealing with Allstate on the 3 sides issue. I dont disagree on your approach, I guess the question is, did it work out for you. I know that the smooth white was one of the big issues we dealt with. As a contractor I think I would have definitely given it a go for the powerwash and repaint.

As an adjuster, I probably wouldnt go for it and I dont think I could have gotten a manager to bite off on that one. They like to pay for whats damaged. Only in the instance of matching Size, Grain/Pattern/Overall color do they have a tendency to waiver. Since it was the smooth white 8", I would only put in for the side that was damaged. I would definitely look at the window casings and anything else that is suseptible to hail dings though. Unfortunately, sometimes a homeowner may have to eat the extra cost to get the rest done. Thats one thing that sucks about insurance. Sometimes it doesnt fall in the homeowners favor.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:38 PM   #30
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


adjustertrainer. What part of MN were you in? Are you a Contractor or Ins. Adjuster?
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:07 PM   #31
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


I was in the St.Louis Park, Edina area of Minneapolis for the majority of the time. Was there as an adjuster. Got my dates wrong, Minnesota was summer of 08, St.Louis Spring 07, Time is flying by, Last year did local stuff in texas for a commercial carrier and did some contractor work as well. I do both Depending on which has the better work at the time. Didnt work as a contractor in MN. Loved the area, hated the state tax you guys pay. Will come back as an adjuster if duty calls though. Dont know If I would want to be a contractor there. Not sure if you guys have to test out for a contractors license there, I cant remember. We use to have to be licensed here in Texas until the building commision went under, so all bets are off down here now. License I had here with a partner is now garbage. No refund on the fee's either.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:49 AM   #32
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


Yes. licensing and exams here. I think it's a good thing. We had enough guys walking the streets telling people they are willing to do roofs for $50 a square labor.

HO gets $350, then they pay $150-$200 for labor and materials......they make more than any contractor. Now we are just stuck fixing all the crap work from them and the chasers with illegals. I saw mobs of Hispanics walking from one side of the street to the other on the same day doing jobs. Cheap labor, no taxes, no insurance.

I gotta say, you can keep all those guys down there in TX. LOL
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:18 AM   #33
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


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Yes. licensing and exams here. I think it's a good thing. We had enough guys walking the streets telling people they are willing to do roofs for $50 a square labor.

HO gets $350, then they pay $150-$200 for labor and materials......they make more than any contractor. Now we are just stuck fixing all the crap work from them and the chasers with illegals. I saw mobs of Hispanics walking from one side of the street to the other on the same day doing jobs. Cheap labor, no taxes, no insurance.

I gotta say, you can keep all those guys down there in TX. LOL



Very well said. I wish HO would realize this and understand it. But like I always tell my HO is there's a right way and wrong way to do this project. My way will save them $$$$$ down the road, and the wrong way will cost them headaches and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ sooner rather than later
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:25 AM   #34
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


I would agree about licensing. It was put into place here about 4 years ago because some home contractors did some really really crappy work. Legislature didnt fund it though after initial setup and it fell apart. Even though it cost every contractor in the state doing work over $25,000 a non-refundable application fee of $500 which should of kept them going for the first year at a minimum but didnt. Big thing here is word of mouth, it will kill a contractor in a heart beat if they do crappy work. We have had several builders go under due to bad press. Not sure if the Gov. will get involved again or not. Part wishes they would, part want them to stay out just because they begin to put some really stupid consumer protections in place.

As for the cheap labor, We want them to go back across the border and stay. They hurt our labor force even more than ya'lls. I would say about 30% of the construction workers here are undocumented. You can go to any major city and there will be 3 or 4 areas where a sorry contractor can go pick up 20 or 30 guys. Not saying they are all illegal, but i would bet a large majority are. I counted 60 at a place in Denton TX last week. These guys work for cash and are cheap. They dont pay taxes and there are no records. I think they should start going after the contractors.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:39 AM   #35
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


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Now for Roofer Dan, your welcome and no problem. The storm you are referring too was nasty one to break a cherry on. All kinds of issues that year. Sound like you were dealing with Allstate on the 3 sides issue. I dont disagree on your approach, I guess the question is, did it work out for you. I know that the smooth white was one of the big issues we dealt with. As a contractor I think I would have definitely given it a go for the powerwash and repaint.
that storm was a doozy. i basically worked 3 jobs that season. had my crew booked for the year before independence day, fulfilled most of my duties as an in-house inspecter for a very large company, and sold for a local "insurance restoration" contracter. made for some long days.

the thing that really got to me was the sheer number of storm chasers that decended upon our little corner of the world. at first i hated them, each and every one. them i started to feel sorry for them. i figured that something like that must have happened where they came from, thus leaving them no work at home. why else would they have come here, to akron, the armpit of the mid-west? first thing i did was buy a moterhome. just in case all of our work here dried up.

allstate wasn't too god awful bad, state farm was a bit tougher to deal with. their "steep team" was a real bear, a big texan with an asian guy, but that's another story. i'm still having nightmares about those 2 fellas.

i only had one project that i couldn't vinyl the whole house. that one only had damage to one side. what a pain that job turned into. most times, the big thing was if the electric meter was on a damaged elevation. then i could get the o and p. aluminum awnings were another biggy.

so far as how it all worked out, pretty well. so far as i know, all of my customers are still happy with the work done. i made a few bucks. the other 2 companies i was working for made money. and i'm still getting enough work to keep the bills paid.

plus, if the work does dry up here, all i gotta do is gas up the bus.

Thanks Again!
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:54 PM   #36
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


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Originally Posted by adjustertrainer View Post

If I have doubts about what the carrier is telling me then I challenge them. Most contractors may or may not know about a service called ITEL. Some of the carriers use them for their matching service on carpet, shingles, siding, etc.. ITEL is known throughout the insurance industry because of their service. They have a facility in florida that has a sample of just about every piece of siding every made, every shingle and carpet. As a contractor I can use them too if I dont trust what the carrier is telling me. Costs me a small fee but it can be well worth it.
Thanks for the heads up that ITEL http://www.itelinc.com/siding-match.asp acquired SidingMatch.com
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:22 PM   #37
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


Sort of related,
I have done a few insurance jobs in the past for HO that I had done work with previously, how can I get referred by the adjuster or the insurance work. Most homes in my area are 2nd homes and so the HOs don't have any local connections and I think that they go with whoever is they are first contacted by.
It's not uncommon for pipes to break and then the water to run for several weeks before someone notices.
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:47 AM   #38
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Re: Question On Siding Insurance Claim


adjustertrainer: good advice.

KevinD:

State Farm is one of the carriers, who has a preferred vendor list. While I believe their policy is the same throughout the country, you cannot markup material costs and have to buy your material from either Home Depot or Lowe's. Nationwide, State Farm has a deal with them.......tell me that is not price fixing. In addition, they make you jump through hoops on paperwork.

Have you seen the adjuster's estimate? Check his line items against yours.

While State Farm and the adjusters usually don't tell the insured that they have to use their contractor, they encourage them to when they say that they will guarantee their work for 5 years.

I always ask the insured, "If you have to have your carrier guarantee the work of the preferred contractor, what does that say about the work of the contractor?"

Tahoe Builder:

In today's market, independent adjusters are not supposed to market or recommend contractors, unless they are on the carrier's vendor program.

Having worked throughout the country as a restorer/adjuster for the last 16 years, I have always been a firm believer in direct marketing (face to face through network groups, meeting plumbers, property managers, etc and speaking engagements at Associations.

Internet marketing is also very big for out of state HO's. A good site, good domain name that gets peoples interest, and search engines will help you attract business for those with 2nd homes. There is a strategy to this.

More information can be provided at a later date.

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