Know It All Client

Celtic

You're wrong.

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buddy110

Celtic

The kick in the nuts at the end is classic

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BattleRidge

I dont think I would trump them. That wasnt my point. OP even commented on how the he thought it may not come out. If I thought that I would rather have the cheaper loser do it. I dont want to sell on price, rather value. So that they think what they get is worth the price I have because I do a superior job. Now if I did a job I thought would come out bad expecially and exterior, that wouldnt sell any person that saw that job or knows those HO either for a reasonable price.

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Celtic

All the while, thumbing your nose at the MFG's recommendations....

Like you said though:
Implying your way is better than the MFG's way.

Whatever ...it's your business to run as you see fit.

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BattleRidge

You just dont understand what I am saying apparently.

You may not care as long as your are not responsible for the final product because the company said that it will be ok.

I care about the work I do because that still reflects on me.

Im talking about this particular instance. I think we both know its better to apply to the sheathing then to two layers of shakes.

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Tom Struble

are you sure he contacted the manfacturer and not a salesman
it constantly amazes me how many siding salesmen dont know thier own productor have wrong headed opinions on how it should be applied

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Tom

oldfrt

Gotta agree on the salesmen's limitations of knowledge about installations.
Hopefully I can get a name for reference when I make contact.

I've seen and admired your work,I would trust your opinion on this application before that of anyone that sits behind a desk all day.

My take is ,if you have to nail through the insulation board just below the reveal in the old siding,that nail will be basically "suspended"for a good
1 1/2",if you give the shakes any lateral holding capabilities.

But we know how easy it is to split shakes, so I wouldn't consider them to have any holding stregnth.
Now your suspending that nail 2"-2 3/4 ,from the sheathing and it's going to tend to bend down from the siding weight.
Maybe I'm just over thinking this,but without ever doing this actual kind of application,I want to cover my arse!

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Tom Struble

i agree that nail is too far away from hitting anything solid
you usually see the consequences of this a few years down the line
siding will sag and possibly unhook itself

id recommend a heavy ga siding nailed every 8-10'' if you have to install this way,i would also use a 1/2 -3/4 extruded foam instead of styrofoam

or you could strap the wall vertically and foam in between the strapping

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Tom

tuffplay

He is probably right!! Just kidding. Here is what I would do:

1. Get a rec from the manufacturer, if it is in agreement with what your saying then I would show the HO and explain that inorder to get the most out of the product, you have to follow the manf. guidelines.

2. Check the code - perhaps you will find that it must be installed the way you want to install it to meet code.

3. Explain that you are a professional, thats why you were hired and that you will not do work in a manner that is not up to your standards, if the work was to look poor over time, it could adversly affect your rep.

Good Luck Friend!

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PaulAndSon

Tom Struble

thinking about it more you may be able to adjust your siding courses so that you will hit higher up on the shakes you may have to cut
whatever shakes hang over the foundation or use a wider starter

if you use good materials,long enough nails,lay it out as best you can and tighten up your nailing schedule you should be fine

what kind of house is it?1 or 2 stories shouldn't be a problem
bigger than that i would strap and fill

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Tom

72chevy4x4

if you did go over the shake siding, you would want to nail directly into studs. I would guess the main problem would be broken pieces of shake falling 'down' behind the siding. if looked at from various angles, you will see the flatness is not the same by observing differnet shades in the siding (viewed from far away).

pull it off and reside.

Tom Struble

that install is probably how 80% of the vinyl siding in this country is installed
a superior installer=superior install
we would all love to start with a clean slate
but its not always possible
a good installer will find ways to produce an outstanding job
no matter what the difficulties are

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Tom

SuperGlazier

Just my .02.... I would email the manufacturer listing your concerns with this type of application. Then once replied to, if the manufacturer says do it then I would make one more reply asking if they are going to pay the labor and material cost when you need to replace. If not and the homeowner is insistant on doing it the manufacturers way I would have him sign a release for warranty on sagging. Any manufacturer defect will be covered by the manufacturer due to the email. Adjust your price where needed as the HO is making special requests. As tomstruble stated I would also strap the home 8-10"o.c. giving yourself a better nailing base and hold. If you do it this way, you are accomodating the HO and helping yourself all in one.

skyhook

Do whatever it takes to get your foot in the door, get a signature, deposit and get the out.

When you come back, do your demo and whip out the change order.

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oldfrt

I did land the job,and have installed new windows,but ut looks like spring for the siding since he needs to get someone to do foundation repairs first.

The way it sits now,I'll go over this week and do a "test" run on the front porch alcove since I have to finish the underside of the new roof we installed.

The plan is to tear/cut off bottom course of shingles for solid nailing at starter.
Furr out with 2x material flush to face of insulation.
Renail any loose shakes so surface is stable.
install High-R insulation,tape joints and tyvec over.
Get some 4" roofing nails to hit solid 1" sheathing at 10-12" OC.
Pull down on siding to test holding power on lateral movement of long nails.

Since I'll have to use the 5" corners to even get nails to hit sheathing I may also add solid furring in this area also because of their extra weight.

This is how it looked before the new windows were installed.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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Tom Struble

you should be fine,you could use a wider galvinized starter instead of cutting the first course,4'' nails every 12-16'' you will have nothing to worry about

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Tom