Insulated Siding And Marketing

Patrick

We've been talking here about insulated siding, for the most part we can say its a good product, the question is whether or not it is worth the money.

We sold a few jobs with it recently, and with the exception of the two huge high pressure financing companies around here no one else sells it.

This is making me consider perhaps leaning towards insulated siding when I go out to sell, to make us different than the other guys and have a product that stands out.

What are your feelings about steering customers towards the insulated product versus automatically pulling out the carvedwood or monogram samples.

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

easy sider

The seams on most glued insulated sidings are huge. Some as large as 18 inches. While some manufactures will produce long length panels, most will not. Even with reduced seams on a long length panel, the seams at the overlaps would still be vary noticeable.

While we try not to sell glued foam sidings, I always have a sample of Cedar Boards and Structure available should a home owner be leaning that way. The Structure panel is a good sell against cement board.

What makes us different from most of the competition, and maybe the same for you, is the reference list of over 100 beautiful homes that can be view from the curb. The product you are selling is your craftsmanship and knowledge first, then the material.

dougchips

Round numbers:

You can sell your clients R-5 overall vinyl siding (Alside and others)

A 2x4 house with r 13 gives about a R-10 overall when you figure in the studs, headers and everything else.

R-10 + R-5, you are making their walls 50% more energy efficient.......how much is oil heat in your area?

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easy sider

I think that solid poly 4 x 8 insulated sheeting insulates better than fitted poly glued to vinyl. The fitted poly has a nominal value with gaps at each course, while the 4 x 8 poly has a whole value without these gaps.

To get r-5.4 from poly it would have to be a solid 3/4 inch thick with skins.

Glued insulated siding would rate at 3/8 inch thickness or r- 2.7 in my opinion because the product should rate at the thinnest point.

Red Adobe

I do alot of the old style siding, but i have seen the insulated and was not impressed at all. I would however instal wrap, EPS with sealent on joints, and put on regular siding with no quams

If a job was done 100% right and as intended then yah it be a fine product but in the real world corners will get cut and most will effect the true R value. The biggest one being air gaps caused by expansion and contraction differces, and the other being made by guys in a hurry who dont care " It aint my house attitudes"

If selling an R value Id have to do with EIFS as its a monolithic. I repaired a storefront last winter where the installers used plastic cap nails for the foam 7 years ago and they came loose..... 40' by 14' section It was like the building was breathing loL but none of the finish was cracked.

Jake Stevens

We have been selling a Radiant Barrier reflective insulation for over two years. With a R factor of 10.2 and it's only 1/4" so you don't have to build out anything most of the time. Then we sell a lot of Quest 3 Long Length for less seams. When we use the Long Length we do mix in the 12'6" panels to cut down on cost.

Home Serve

Jake, About what is the cost on the 1/4" Radiant Barrier reflective insulation per square? Don't see it around here in midwest but possibly should be using it with energy costs heading where they are. Do your customers find it effective?
Anyone, comments on radiant barrier?
Thanks,
Dave C

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Missouri Remodeling Company with services for Replacement Windows Vinyl Siding and Entry Doors

Patrick

can we get a link? The only thing that sucks about that sorta stuff is you gotta wear sunglasses year round

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Home Serve

Yeah with those sunglasses! Hate to put it on in this weather, the heat index was 108, it was one of those work on the shady side days but still pretty uncomfortable. Reckon that foil would kind of even out the tan to get a little on the front side.
Dave C

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Missouri Remodeling Company with services for Replacement Windows Vinyl Siding and Entry Doors

Patrick

its just as bad in the snow too

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Patrick

So we got some reponses here, HOWEVER MY main point is, usefulness aside, How many use the product as a sales advantage or can see it being one.

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Home Serve

I certainly see energy efficiency as a sales point and I think it's up to us to make the effort to help our customers save money on utilities. Covering the house with an efficient siding material or combo of wrap, backer, or whatever seems like it would help these older, poorly insulated homes. Question is: how to do so effectively both cost and performance wise!
Interest in windows has not slacked off in our market and energy savings is a major motivator of folks that I talk to.
Dave C

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Missouri Remodeling Company with services for Replacement Windows Vinyl Siding and Entry Doors

fez-head

Hello Dave,

A new tenant recently moved into the warehouse that we rent here in Jeff City and he is a wholesale distributer for this foil covered insulation. It looks like he has 1/4" thick rolls (as well as 4'x8' sheets) all the way up to to 5/8" 4'x8' sheets sitting back there.

We also rent an office attached to the warehouse, so when I see him roll through again I will get his phone number for you.

Jesse

PS - Thats a fine looking web site you have.

HomeSealed

I've been going back and forth on the issue myself for the past few months and done a lot of research on it. The fact of the matter is for energy efficiency there isn't much difference. You can get the same r-value whether you use the insulation backed with a wrap or hollow backed with extruded sheets of x" thickness. Both sides have documentation "proving" that their way is better, but they both guarantee the efficiency claims. The real difference is in the look and the rigidity of the product. I sell both, but in my mind the hollow backed product can't even come close. Around here, anyone with a "higher end" home that is interested in vinyl won't even look t a hollow core product.

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easy sider

The r value of foam sheeting is a whole r value and the r value of all foam glued siding is a nominal value. The r value of foam glued sidings is also compromised by the way it stacks foam from one course to the next.

The appearance of most of these types of siding at the overlaps is undesirable. The length of panel is usually twelve foot making more ugly overlaps.

The advertising for foam glued siding can be impressive because of the extra rigidity the foam gives the siding. If a home owner can afford this type of siding they could probably afford Cedar Discovery or Cedar Impressions which looks much better than lap sidings.

HomeSealed

I'm not sure what brand you are used to, but most come in longer lengths than 12'. The Alside Prodigy is acually 16'8". As far as the overlap height, the panels I use are double 6" or double 7". I don't use any quad 4" or triple 6" for that reason. I agree that it has to be installed properly to get the advertised r-value, however the numbers speak for themselves. The numbers are acheived on a whole wall, not just from the thickest point of the panel as you suggested earlier. Understand, I'm not saying that this is a far superior product as some would try and make you believe, but I do think that it has some nice benefits.

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Patrick

We use certainteed Cedar boards Double 4" comes in 12's and 16'8"

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

easy sider

16`8 cedarboards is a 45 - 60 day wait for us. Monogram xl is 21 - 30 days out. Simon Osborn, a ply gem rep. says its a production problem.

When we lock Cedarboards samples we notice that there is an area along the lock where the insulation overlaps. This is the same with all of these types of panels. At this lock area, the insulation is compromised because its not solid, but overlapping. This overlap allows air to infiltrate under the insulation. It seems to me that this would negate some of the R value. At the thickest point the insulation on Cedarboards is 3/4 inch thick, at the thinnest its less than 3/8, so the average thickness may be close to 1/2 thick. That's the nominal thickness of the panel. At the lock where the insulation overlaps there is a channel in the insulation of about 1 inch that extends all the way across the course where the insulation is very thin.

THESE PANELS CANT INSULATE AS GOOD AS SOLID SHEETING . There is no way any installer could hang this type of panel and achieve a strong R value without using solid sheeting under the insulated siding.

The vinyl used with most of these insulated sidings is thinner than what we like. Monogram is .046 while Cedarboards is .044. This is just another way for the manufacturers to sell us less product at a higher price.

There are three diferent densitys of the materials used to make these panels that expand and contract at different ratios causing these panels to delaminate in some areas. While the panel does have more rigidity because of the glued foam, the tinsil strenght is still provided by the wall its installed to, just like hollow back.

Even though these panels may feel different, they look about the same from the curb. Im still a big fan of the .046 Royal Woodland, .048 T-lok and the .046 Grand Siera xl but have moved on to Certainteed products for now. The lock on Monogram doesnt seem as solid as the other brands but thats my only gripe.

mrhmm

sorry, i don't have the exact knowledge about the materials, but i think you should probably ask your clients if they want the choice...do they like the idea? do you have to sell them on it? what are the added benefits for them?

looks to me like it's sold based on increased efficiency (i.e. lowers monthly costs), so of course it will be a selling point. it's really just a matter of what your customers want and if they're willing to pay extra for them. if they are, then why not use this product to set yourself apart?

easy sider

This type of product is used more for steel buildings as a heat barrier and for condensation protection. It is also used to wrap heating ducts. Im not sure how the r 10.2 is achieved as the product is a barrier and not an insulation. Ive never seen this product used for insulating siding but have seen it used in mini storages and sheds for condensation protection.