Help With Wavey Hardiplank Siding

DRO8821

I am building a new home. Hardiplank siding was installed. On one long outside garage wall the siding is wavy and in places comes away for the way about an inch. The contractor tried to correct the wavey problem by cutting the inside 2x4's. Didn't help. Then they tried installing additional 2x4's next to the original ones. No luck. Also inside the garage you can see multiple rows of nails that missed the studs. Anyone have any ideas on correcting this. The contractor doesn't seem to know why the problem occured or how to correct it. the siding is wavy in other places along other walls of the house is varing degrees. The garage wall is the worst.

Grumpy

Seems to me that you have one of three problems.

Either the framing was installed wavy, or the plywood on the framing was installed too tight and has expanded and buckled, or the hardie was installed too tight and has buckled.

The easy fix isn't easy at all. It would require taking off the siding and shimming it then reinstalling it... The best method would be taking of the siding and sheating and making sure the studs are even and not wavy then reinstalling everything.

Have fun.

TimWieneke

Sounds like they didn't crown the studs when they framed the wall. 99% of studs have a bow in them (slight curve along the length on the 1 3/4" side of the board). The trick is to set the studs in the wall so that all bows are pointed in 1 direction. To do otherwise really is unaccetable (Steve the Foreman's quote applies to the carpenter here), especially on a new home.

Grumpy's solution really is the only one, unfortunately. At least you'll be armed with knowledge when you discuss this problem with your builder.

Tim

__________________
As Steve the Foreman would say, "Forgive him Lord, for he doesn't know what he's doing."

Glasshousebltr

Good call Tim, I'll bet 100 to 1 thats exactly his problem.
Awhile back (70s 80s) you could get away with not crowning your studs, now a days material quality wont let you. Before this crap is over you'll have to crown your felt.

Bob

DRO8821

Since this is the first (and last) house I have built I really did not know what casued the problems other than the fact that there is definately a problem. I was going to try to have another sider look at the problems but it sounds like I should have a carpenter look at it. The more information I have the better because the builder seems at a total loss on what has caused this problem. (Hum - they have been in business 30-40 years so I don't quite get that especially since I got a response here so quickly.) Keep in mind I have been going over this with my builder for 3 months - they seem to think I will be closing on this house next week!

One of the owners did tell me this is why they should quit using Hardiplank - ironically they suggested the stuff to me in the first place!! On a positive note at least the paint job won't be effectived if they have to take the siding off - because it is so bad they have already agreed to repaint the entire outside in the spring!!!!

Thanks for your answers. I appreciate it!
Debbie

Grumpy

Why not use pre-stained hardie with a color warranty? It's cheaper and better than hiring a painter. IMO.

Glasshousebltr

Here's another thing to look at Deb.

Take a string line inside the garage where the wall meets the floor. Pull the line from corner to corner along the bowed wall then check the line in the middle. If the wall is away from the line it's possible the forms for the foundation bucked out and the frame crew just followed the foundation at the base plate.

Bob

DRO8821

Grumpy - I didn't know hardi came prestained. Heck I never even heard of it until 10 months ago when the builder suggested it. I have alumn siding now. My whole plan was I wanted something with the least amount of maintenance (the very least!!). The builder suggested the hardi for durability and low upkeep so I thought ok why not.

Bob - I'll try the string thing this afternoon. Hopefully I won't hang myself in the process!!! I am suppose to meet the builder on site later today so they can tell me what they think they are going to do about the situation. It should be interesting. I'll keep you posted!

Thanks
Deb

Mike Finley

The builder told you Hardi plank is more maintenace free than vinyl siding? One needs to be painted periodically the other doesn't.

Naughty builder.

Grumpy

Yeah Vinyl is more maintenance free than Hardi, but set that aside and I would say that hardi is more durable. Also if you get a prestained hardi witht he 25 year color guarantee there should be absolutely no reason to even dream about painting the siding for 15 years easy.

DRO8821

1st the string test. I ran a 2 strings corner to corner on the inside garage wall. then I ran a string straight across the wall at third of the way down the wall & two thirds of the way down the wall. The results were, on each string some parts were flush with the 2X4's, some were away from the 2X4 by about 1/2 inch and some were away from the 2X4 about 1 inch. It was like that on all 4 strings. I showed this to the builder rep and he told me 1/2 inch gap was acceptable but where its more that could be a problem. The builders plan is to have a Hardi rep, the Hardi supplier, the installer & framing carpenter, builder rep and I meet next week to review the whole mess.

According to my builder: If, on this wall they do have to take off the siding & fix the 2x4's they would order prestained siding to closely match the paint color & then repaint the whole house in spring - since they can not leave unstained hardi exposed to the elements until spring. I also asked why I wasn't offered prestained vs. painted hardi. He said that with prestained when you put the stuff up where you cut the pieces there is no prestaining, so you have to go back and touch up with paint those areas on the house. This touch up fades at a different rate than the prestained pieces so you get different color variations as time goes by which look lousy & requires repainting the whole house

Is that true? I don't know what to believe anymore. What I am wondering is if they find the 2x4's are the cause of the wavy siding on this one garage wall what about the rest of the house. There are 2 other sections that have a slight wavy look to them. They are not as bad as the garage wall yet should the rest of the house also have the siding off to make sure the whole darn thing isn't messed up? Is if logical to say other areas are probably effected but maybe not to the degree of the garage wall?

Thanks guys
Deb

Glasshousebltr

1/2 inch acceptable? Well crap! I've been doing this all wrong. From now on I'll hire some grade school kids for candy money, then let them throw it up while I'm at the bar.

Ask they fella if most his work is in mainland China.

Bob

Grumpy

I would say that's not true. At least I have never had that problem and always, and I mean always encourage my customers to get the prestained. I usually order my "touch up" stain from the same manufacturer that does the pre staining. What they give me is actual left over stain that was used in the original staining process.

Will you have to repaint the whole house? Yes. I won't lie. You will have to repaint the whole house anyways, weather you use a painter or the pre-stianed siding. It's my opinion that the pre-stained siding is a much better product and you can go longer without repainting. Any painter will tell you that you get between 3 and 7 years on your exterior paint.

Hmm pay a painter to do my paint then pay him again at least twice in 10 years or have my siding prestained which should last ten years easy and BTW costs less in the first place, Oh! and has a warranty?

Hmmm decisions decisions.

I'm not poking fun at you DR0, you didn't know it was an option. I am just pointing out the flaw in your contactors story.

DRO8821

I got to tell ya guys this whole darn house building process has been a huge pain in the butt! I can't believe my experience with this builder is standard operating procedure. I mean they have been in business 30-40 years you would think some of this stuff wouldn't be happening. Although my tip off should have been the day I stopped at the house at about 2:30pm and the rockers were busy busy at work. The radio was blasting and they were having a couple of beers, but hey they were still working!!! Unfortunately I don't speak spanish and they couldn't seem to understand "don't be drinking and rocking my house at the same time" I called the builder & got VM. The rockers did understand "get rid of the beer or I am calling the police & telling them your trespassing"!!!

The ironic things about the siding is I told the builder I wanted a low low maintenance house. With three small boys I hate the idea of spending my time "working" around the house when we could be doing something fun. Heck if I could have concrete painted green to look like grass that would be my ideal lawn!!! Yet obviously that isn't what I got. Hey Grumpy is the prestained more expensive than unstained? Then if you figure in the painting costs? Ironically the outside painter did a terrible job. He sprayed the house in uneven amounts. In the sunlight you can see the spray variations. In addition all around the house are 1) trimmed painting with the main color 2) main color painted on trim 3)places that were not painted at all. That is why the builder has acknowledge & agreed to repaint the whole thing in the spring.

If they have to rip off one wall of siding because the framing is bad - do I pursue having the other walls riped off too? Am I right to assume all new siding would have to be ordered & installed? I assume if the framing has to be corrected they have to use all new 2x4 too, right? The contract finish date is 1/26 can this actually be accomplished within that time frame (holidays & stuff)? Would weather conditions effect the work? (Besides if there is 6 inches of snow on the ground, I mean) Is hardi more difficult to work with if it is cold or doesn't that matter?

Thanks for all your help guys. The more information I have the more the builder seems to listen. After I did that string test it was like o yeah we might have a problem - why don't you leave the strings up for our meeting next week. I have to wonder why wouldn't they do some of this stuff to figure out what is wrong. I mean they obviously (i thought) know more than I do. Although I have definately been talked down to enough during the whole procedure. Sometimes I think they figured - she won't know the difference if we don't say anything. Unfortunately, the more I dig into the problems and keep on them over and over the bigger my reputation as a witch seems to get!!!

O'well since I'm footing the bill I guess they are just going to have to put up with me and keep trying to get it right. I've told them repeatly I'm not closing on this house until the junk gets corrected. O'well it could be worse - I think!!!

Deb

DRO8821

Ok here is an update and a few new questions. On the 21st the builder calls and tells me they have called Hardiplank and sent various nasty emails to the company requesting a rep call them to meet & review the siding to see what they say and the builder has gotten no response from Hardiplank. The builder tells me he will call me next week when a meeting can be set up. I don't understand this because 2 weeks earlier I called James Hardiplank and they gave me the name & number of a rep in Minn. I left him a message and he called me back the next day. Fast forward to today. I call the builder this afternoon. My customer rep just got in the office. They had a meeting today with the company expidiater, the hardiplank rep and the lumber company who sold the hardiplank at my house. I asked why I wasn't called for the meeting & he told me he didn't think I wanted to or needed to be there. (Excuse me - HELLO) He told me has to go over his notes & he would send me a letter & the rep from Hardiplank would be calling me. I told me he knew I wanted to be there & I had questions. Then he tells me the hardiplank rep will call me and if he is in the area he might be able to stop & talk to me then. I reminded him the person was "in the area" a few hours ago & I would have been at the house if I knew he was coming. Ironically I was at the house 30 minutes prior to this "meeting" for a delivery of gravel. In addition when I asked for the reps name he said the rep was going to call him & he would give him my phone number and he didn't have the guys name off the top of his head. I told him I hope it would be in his letter to me. He thought he would get the letter out maybe tommarow.

Now I already know there is no hardiplank reps in WI right now according to James Hardiplank. But they did give me the names of 3 reps out of IL who I could talk to. The rep in Minn didn't think they would make a trip to WI because it sounded to him like an install problem not a material problem.

On speculation what is the likely hood a rep did not actually come to the house today? If I don't get a name should I contact the reps I was given from James Hardiplank and see what they think. Depending on what is in this letter should I call around for another hardiplank installer to come out and look at the siding? Am I getting the run around or are they actually trying to resolve the problem? Cause I sure feel like this is a song & dance routine!

Any insights you guys have would really be appreciated.
Debbie

Neil_K

Debbie - the company is James Hardie Siding Products.

Keep on your builder no matter who's fault it is because its his responsibility (and reputation) to make you happy.

DRO8821

Ok the builder (expediater) called this morning. At the meeting it was decided the lumber company would deliver timber strand studs (he told me they are man made & perfectly straight) The carpenter is to install them on every stud in the garage this afternoon. I am going to stop out there & see whats up.

pondman

Your problem is not the Hardiplank product. Your problem is in the framing. By that I mean it is not plumb and level. Unfortunately, it will be EXTREMELY hard to correct this without tearing it completely down. There are variances allowed in national code as well as local codes. While the largest varieance I know is 1/4", it is not to say that this is acceptible to you. It sounds like the walls are all out of kilter and it is going to cost a lot of $$$ to fix it.

As for painting or staining, I am in North Carolina and I always prime and two coats of paint on all my Hardiplank. You will not have to paint this like regular wood because it is a concrete fiber product and absorbs the paint much better and lasts much longer. IMO paint instead of stain on this product. But that is my opinon.

DRO8821

Well - amazing as it seems this situation just keeps going down hill!! The builder called me to ask if the rep from James Hardi had called me yet. I told him no & asked for the reps name & number which he gave me. I called the rep and had a very interesting conversation.

He was basically surprised I wasn't at the meeting & neither was the installer. (and the reason he did not call me was because the builder did not give him my name or number - instead he was told if the builder thought I wanted to talk to him the builder would give me the reps phone number!) Anyway he told me the wavyness of the siding on the garage and also on the back wall of the house was definately there (Thank goodness it wasn't my imagination!) According to him the hardiplank's look is only as good as what is underneath it. The sting test on the garage wall pretty much said it all (Thanks again for that idea!!) Obviously there is a framing problem and it is reflected in the waves.

As everyone has suggested on this site the problem is becoming painfully recognizable and in turn appearing to be costly to fix. The installed studs do not resolve the issue.

The best and most sound advise I have gotten is from this site and so I would like to ask some of you this:

If I came to you with this problem and wanted to hire you to correct the situation what would you tell me needs to be done in order to get the job done right?

and

If you were the general and this was the result of your install crew or sub and you wanted to repair the situation at the very LEAST cost to YOU what would you tell me?

I really want to thank everyone for their help. This site has provided me with a wealth of information.

Debbie

TimWieneke

"As everyone has suggested on this site the problem is becoming painfully recognizable and in turn appearing to be costly to fix."

Make sure it stays "costly to fix" for your builder, not you.


"If I came to you with this problem and wanted to hire you to correct the situation what would you tell me needs to be done in order to get the job done right?"

First of all - if you wouldn't mind, please pm the name of your builder. We're opening a Wisconsin office and don't want to do business with a guy who'd give a customer the runaround like this.

Had an idea but I would need input from other guys here on these. Guys, what about removing the siding and wall sheating, then putting a new stud right next to each existing stud (all crowned the same way) then re-install the sheathing and siding attached to these new studs? I believe Grumpy mentioned something to this effect.


Tim

__________________
As Steve the Foreman would say, "Forgive him Lord, for he doesn't know what he's doing."