Fiber Cement Siding Issues.

 
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:12 AM   #1
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Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


Hello everybody. i just received 640 6 1/4 nichiha fiber cement boards and enough 5/4 azek to trim my entire house out. my house is a 3500 sq.ft. victorian from 1897 that has 49 windows. the inside is complete so this my last major hurdle to finish it. i have some questions though.

as it sits right now the entire house is covered in cedar shakes. about half of the house has wood clapboard directly over the studs and the other half has some sort of wood siding that measures a full 1" , again directly over the studs. then the shakes are on top everywhere. i have only seen the 1" siding from the inside and always thought it was sheathing.

my original idea was to remove all of the shakes and clapboard, then fur and sheath to 1" to meet the thicker siding, then run the new clapboard over 15 lbs. felt on the whole house.

today i pulled a couple shakes off of the 1" side and realized the outside has a profile to it which makes me think i should fur that half out to avoid issues with the new install.

with that being the case im thinking i might as well just fur over the clapboard as well and save myself a ton of work by taking the sheathing out of the equation.

i dont know though. that may create new unforeseen issues. what do you guys think about furring strip material ? im thinking pressure treated 1x4's ripped in half or 1/2" treated plywood ripped to 1.5 " strips. i figure this way i will have a air gap behind the siding for condensation drainage.i am also thinking of going with stainless siding screws rather than nails so i dont have issues with the depth setting of the fasteners. any thoughts ?

Last edited by chapstick; 05-24-2012 at 01:16 AM. Reason: forgot info
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:26 AM   #2
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


If it was my house, I'd strip it first. I deal with a lot of 100 year old houses, and it always depresses me to see multiple layers of siding. You've got this one chance to get it right. Cut corners and you may regret it for the rest of the time you live in the house.

Also, while fiber cement is a great product, it is not very forgiving when it comes to the install. You would want to check the manufacturers installation requirements. I've put up a lot of Certainteed FC, and they require (IIRC) the nails to penetrate 1", so if you do use firring strips, they should be beefy.

Just my thoughts.

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Old 05-27-2012, 10:15 AM   #3
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


usually when residing a house the windows and doors somewhat determine how thick everything ends up in the end, siding layers etc.. that is the first thing I look at to determine the next step. ideally, back down to studs and then re-sheath
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:48 AM   #4
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


redid this 1912 house about 6-7 years ago,i plyed over the existing lap and built out the window trim with azek,incorporating a j pocket and bent aluminum sills
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:49 AM   #5
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


by the way you don't have enough azek...j/k..
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:03 AM   #6
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
redid this 1912 house about 6-7 years ago,i plyed over the existing lap and built out the window trim with azek,incorporating a j pocket and bent aluminum sills
Pretty nice looking job How in the world do you get the customer to go for all the extras, Hard here just to do the siding so one can made a fair living.

Used so Versatex the other day for the first time. Was nice way to fix the problem of siding being in the ground, but sure is spendy stuff. 1x8x18 almost 90.00 think it was.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #7
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
redid this 1912 house about 6-7 years ago,i plyed over the existing lap and built out the window trim with azek,incorporating a j pocket and bent aluminum sills
Stunning work Tom.... Very, VERY nice....
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:49 AM   #8
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


thanks for all the replies and damn that is a nice job you did there. i started pulling the shakes in random spots around the house and found that 2/3 of the house has ship lap siding and 1/3 clapboard.

im going to pull all of the shakes and clapboard, sheath directly over the shiplap with 1/2 cdx then fur out and sheath where the clapboard is.

as far as the windows, what they did was put 3/4" quarter round on the perimeters of the windows so that the shakes didnt stick out too far. if i was to remove the quarter round and shakes the shiplap sits about 1/4" in from the casings.

im thinking about leaving the casings and going right over them with the new azek casings so that they would kind of be like extension jambs. if i did that i think the casings would be close to the correct depth after sheathing and siding it.

right now i have 26 5/4x12"x18'. im going to rip them into 5/4x4 so i will have 1400 linear feet of casing. i hope that covers it all. it should. i also have 11- 5/4x6x20' outside corners.

i came up with a slick idea on how to flute all of the casings. i have 2 table routers so if everything is the same width i should be able to set them both up and run the boards through without having to move the fences at all. i want four 1/2" flutes and it should work out symmetrical if set up properly.

have any of of you guys put strips of felt paper over the studs to have a small air gap in back of the siding ? it seems to me it should have somewhere for condensation to run off to. i found some people do this with cedar lap siding but nobody seems to do it on fiber cement. not that i have seen at least.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:43 AM   #9
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


as far as the windows go i first wrapped the inside edge of the existing casing with a small L shape to the storm window then i used flashing tape covering the over the old casing and aluminum wrap and lapping on to the tyvek [ i held it back a little so you wouldn't see it on the inside edge] ten over layed the existing trim

there was a bead at the head that was original and i used a table saw molding head to recreate it

like i said i incorporated a j pocket at the sill and rails but i closed off the head with a azek drip cap and metal
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:45 AM   #10
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


few more pics
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:59 AM   #11
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstick View Post
thanks for all the replies and damn that is a nice job you did there. i started pulling the shakes in random spots around the house and found that 2/3 of the house has ship lap siding and 1/3 clapboard.

im going to pull all of the shakes and clapboard, sheath directly over the shiplap with 1/2 cdx then fur out and sheath where the clapboard is.

as far as the windows, what they did was put 3/4" quarter round on the perimeters of the windows so that the shakes didnt stick out too far. if i was to remove the quarter round and shakes the shiplap sits about 1/4" in from the casings.

im thinking about leaving the casings and going right over them with the new azek casings so that they would kind of be like extension jambs. if i did that i think the casings would be close to the correct depth after sheathing and siding it.

right now i have 26 5/4x12"x18'. im going to rip them into 5/4x4 so i will have 1400 linear feet of casing. i hope that covers it all. it should. i also have 11- 5/4x6x20' outside corners.

i came up with a slick idea on how to flute all of the casings. i have 2 table routers so if everything is the same width i should be able to set them both up and run the boards through without having to move the fences at all. i want four 1/2" flutes and it should work out symmetrical if set up properly.

have any of of you guys put strips of felt paper over the studs to have a small air gap in back of the siding ? it seems to me it should have somewhere for condensation to run off to. i found some people do this with cedar lap siding but nobody seems to do it on fiber cement. not that i have seen at least.
was it cheaper to get 12" azek and rip to 4" instead of buying 4" or close to that size azek from factory and ripping it? the flutes are a good idea, though I have found that the space between the flutes help define the style and the spacings are usually 1/2" between so it makes it harder to get many flutes cut in. maybe 1/4" spacing between the flutes and you can get 4 flutes into a 4" rip,maybe start a 1/2" in from the edges....
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:05 AM   #12
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstick View Post
have any of of you guys put strips of felt paper over the studs to have a small air gap in back of the siding ? it seems to me it should have somewhere for condensation to run off to. i found some people do this with cedar lap siding but nobody seems to do it on fiber cement. not that i have seen at least.
Not sure what kind of gap you'd get with a piece of felt, as it's too thin to create much of an airspace. Could the felt be splines at the siding joints? These are definitely a good idea (I'd argue necessary) for keeping water from getting beyond the siding.

BTW - instead of felt, consider using hard splines made from vinyl or painted aluminum coil stock. They're more durable than most soft materials in this application.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:35 AM   #13
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


Quote:
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was it cheaper to get 12" azek and rip to 4" instead of buying 4" or close to that size azek from factory and ripping it? the flutes are a good idea, though I have found that the space between the flutes help define the style and the spacings are usually 1/2" between so it makes it harder to get many flutes cut in. maybe 1/4" spacing between the flutes and you can get 4 flutes into a 4" rip,maybe start a 1/2" in from the edges....
i got an outstanding deal on the azek and the nichiboards. the nichiboards were 3.75 a piece for pre painted in buttercream and the azek came out to 52 a board. i thought it was a scam but it was not as all of the material is at my house right now. the place is called ironside building products and they are in lancaster pa. even with the delivery charge it was way cheaper than any place around here.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:41 AM   #14
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


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Not sure what kind of gap you'd get with a piece of felt, as it's too thin to create much of an airspace. Could the felt be splines at the siding joints? These are definitely a good idea (I'd argue necessary) for keeping water from getting beyond the siding.

BTW - instead of felt, consider using hard splines made from vinyl or painted aluminum coil stock. They're more durable than most soft materials in this application.
absolutely going with splines at the joints as per manufacturers recommendation.

i think i was reading that they used a couple pieces of felt at the studs but i think i like your idea more. any idea where to look for vinyl splines ?
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:35 AM   #15
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


i found something called sill sealer. its cheap, its 1/4" thick, and its waterproof. what do you think ?
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Old 05-30-2012, 03:57 PM   #16
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


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absolutely going with splines at the joints as per manufacturers recommendation.

i think i was reading that they used a couple pieces of felt at the studs but i think i like your idea more. any idea where to look for vinyl splines ?
Make them yourself out of bendable vinyl coil stock, or just use painted aluminum coil.

Another option is to use Bear Skins.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:24 PM   #17
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


the felt will provide a capillary break,but not much drying potential

Tom Silva uses felt splines on wood lap
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:36 PM   #18
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


solid info on the bear skin . those bear clips look perfect as well. i think that may be the answer to my problem.

it says 3 per board and it gives you a passage for water to escape and sets the boards within .002" of the previous board. outstanding.

im about ready to begin now. i just scored a bostitch siding nailer and a set of makita fiber cement shears along with a set of geckos. with this discovery of the bear clips it appears the geckos will not be getting much use now.

those shears are sick. i had to test them to see what i was in for and they truly are a pleasure to use.

one more question and i will leave you guys alone.

with the age of my house it can be taken for granted the studs are not 16" o.c. what do you guys do about off stud joints ? i found some painted galvanized clips on the web. are they necessary or do you just face nail them at the joints ?
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:42 PM   #19
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


really doesn't matter if the stud spacing isn't exactly 16'',i'd be leery of using anything JH doesn't specifically recommend
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Last edited by Tom Struble; 05-30-2012 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:49 PM   #20
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Re: Fiber Cement Siding Issues.


i would prefer not to have to cut 600+ boards so the joints land on studs. is that what you do ? that seems like a hell of a lot of work !

odds are i would be ok since i will be nailing into 4/4 solid wood siding with plywood on top with ring shank nails but as mentioned in an earlier post i have one shot at getting this right so any precautions will be taken if necessary.


Last edited by chapstick; 05-30-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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