Estimating Guide For Windows?

Grumpy

I am wondering if anyone here has an estimating guide for windows that they can share with me?

I've started putting together my own, basically detailing the considerations an estimator needs to be aware of to properly put together a price, however it's just become a jumbled mess of important pish-posh with no real structure.

I'm trying to put together this estimating guide for my estimators, trying to get our window division upt to speed 100% by the end of the month so we are ready for the mad winter rush as it starts getting cold.

The goal of the guide would be to eliminate, or at least minimize, estimating mistakes.

So far what I have (text only) is as follows...

I plan to include photo's as well.

For my roofing, siding & gutters I've aleady put together similiar guides, however I am pressed for time and not pleased with what I have so far. Overall it's a good skeleton but needs more meat on its' bones.

I look at a job and I can almost immediately see what needs to be done to install the new window. Basically how can I pass this knowledge along to future generations of estimators for my company?

Amber

I like your format. We do not have any printed guidelines. Just having hired two estimators recently with very little experience we send them out with the installers on some jobs so that they get a feel for the work and do extensive training in the showroom with them coupled with having the manufacturers come in and do a dog and pony show as well on differences in product. I like your idea of a guide though.

Grumpy

I try a systemized approach with everyone on the same page. Sending the estimators out to work a day or two with the installers is a great idea, however you don't know all there is to know in a day or two... and you don't know all there is to know with any guide either. However I'm just trying to throw the info at the estimator (with pictures) so they make less rookie mistakes.

In addition to this estimating guide, there is a 101 type presentation that the estimator must give to the customer which goes into more detail about insulation and so forth. However some details, like insulation, don't effect price since we do it to every window and it's already factored into the base price.

I operate unlike most "sales" based orginizations. Although I understand the power in a closer, I truly feel that someone armed with knowledge and a good personality has no reason to use clising techniques.

To tell the truth the real reason I put together guides like this one is because I constantly repeat myself. It's easier for me to say "It's in the book" than re-explain it every time.

Patrick

Grumpy Heres some good questions

Are there currently aluminum jamb liners?

If so is there a pocket behind the jamb liner that needs to be furred out or have the window made larger wider?

What is the depth of the current window frame? Is it less than 3-1/4?

What kind of stops are on the window? Ie anderson windows which have to be installed from the outside only

Inside install or outside install?

How difficult will the windows be to wrap ie vinyl siding with J's side nailed into the casing making it a pain to re-wrap

New construction windows, jamb depth is it standard througout the whole house? plaster lath/venear walls will jambs have to be custom cut?

Are there sufficient headers?


Grumpy Id like to see your vinyl siding book

Grumpy

Patrick, Thanks for the heads up. i can send you the "presentation" since the vinyl siding book isn't yet completed. It's a rough draft similiar to this one. Curently the only trade books I have completed would be for shingle roofing. I am also currently working on an installation manual for installers so EVERTHING is standardized.

The largest thing I am lacking is pictures of detail.

I'll send you an PM tomorrow when i get to the office. If I forget please send me a PM to remind me.

Amber

I am applauding your approach. One of my pet pieves is the amount of people out there selling things that they do not understand and have never installed.

Grumpy

The thing is even if you have hired someone who has installed an intem and is now selling it, they must understand your system. Sales and production must be on the same page. Sales must be able to promise only what production can deliver.

I am the manager and it is my job to determine those systems. It is my responsibility to make sure the estimators know how I want the work bid, how I want it priced, and how the production can deliver.

That's where i stand right now. These documents are some what two sided. They are used to teach my specifiers how I want them to specify, while also will be altered slightly to teach production staff how i want their finished work to appear when complete.

In my opinion anything less is anarchy.

grob62

I've never had to do an outside install on an Andersen, at least not your normal PSNL. Could you explain to me why.

Ed the Roofer

Grumpy,

How far did you get with your sales/install guideline procedures manual before you got too busy with your other products you sell and put it off the table for a while.

Next year, I want to add replacement windows to my line of products to sell also. I plan on going to some training sessions over the winter and working hands on with a subs installation crew to get a feel for it.

Ed

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enforcer

ed,thats the best way to learn the window business.

erikm

Exterior head flashing...anyone?

KentWhitten

Is that a question or a statement to the 3 year old thread?

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erikm

I find the age of the thread not important,because it is useful even in thsi modern day we live in.

I have seen many window change outs where the head trim depends on caulking to keep the window from leaking.

Is this common or are we using a cut in metal flashing on a siding install?

KentWhitten

It's easier to follow if you are a little less cryptic with your questions.

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KevinD

If you have commimission sales reps I always figure material and labor times 3.5, then let them drop 30% of that list price

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erikm

Sorry for that,just cutting my teeth here.

Been reading a bunch of post and gettin the hang of things.

W-Tinc

Good question, especially for people who live in areas where most of the windows being replaced are metal outs.

My experience as a sub trying to get companies to automatically install new drip caps where needed and pay me for it was not always pleasant.

One company, oddly enough the most expensive one I ever subbed for, would not let you cut anything back. If you didn't just put 1x's over existing siding and then wrap/silicone it you were in trouble (yes I got in trouble and only did two jobs for them, although they were very nice people).

erikm

This is an area where the sales peole fear and will not deal with it

I fill that most companys are into profit at the owners expence in retro fits

PapaMike

Grumpy, this is great. I would love to have this kind of doc for all of my work. I am trying to be as detailed as I can be in my estimating and hoping that this will result in less underbids. I would like to see what other people are doing in their estimating.
Thanks again

buddy110

Sounds like a pretty good approach which should net a consistent profit margin. I don't understand why metal framed windows have to be removed thopugh. We often use them as a stop and snap a cap over them.

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