Dropping Gutters

roofdog_jr

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time reader .

I am getting ready to install new soffits and fascia on a ranch style house that has seamless gutters. Does anyone have any advice on how to drop the gutters without bending them out of shape or damaging them in other ways? I have not been able to figure out a good way of doing this yet. Any advice is appreciated! Thanks!

red_cedar

What do you mean, drop.
If you are one man..... insert the brackets every couple of feet or so, to add rigidity.....if the roof is a roof that you can nail a nail into, then do so about a 8 inches up from the roof edge. Get some wire that has insulation around it. attach the wire to the nail and form a loop that you will be able to slide one end of the gutter thru. wire loop holds gutter so it does not fall. wire and nail placement depends on how long gutter is.Have another nail and wire ready to where you are standing or elsewhere you are useing the wire loop to hold up gutter. Gutter is now in postion for you to use both your hands. I dont know if it made any sense, but I can do 30 some ( closer to 40 feet )of gutter this way, 1 man. ( 1 story, steep or lower pitch) almost forgot,...done off of scaffolding

I will add, the brackets then can be removed...it was only to keep the gutter rigid when handling

Grumpy

I think that you think that the gutters need to be removed, and they do not.

I assume the fascia is 8". Cut your aluminum fascia to be about 4" in height and simply slide it behind your gutter. You do not need to disturb the gutters at all.

Even when the gutters are removed we don't cap all the way up. We have found that the more fasteners used in fascia cladding, the more possibility to wrinkle that cladding. nailing the gutters through aluminum cladding will most definetly wrinkle the cladding.

roofdog_jr

Thanks for you responses. By drop I did mean to remove the gutters, temporarily, to install the fascia. Both of your responses are very informational. The gutters I have to work around are 81 feet long. From what you both said I think I might just go with Grumpy's idea, much less work!! :Thumbs: Also, we are installing a new roof, before we do the fascia and soffit work, so I wouldn't want to put any nails through the new roof to hold any brackets. Thanks again, love this site!

Tom R

I would hope the only time you would install a (partial) 'push-up' style fascia, - - is when you have a custom drip cap installed under your shingles and overlapping the gutter, - - because bare (or even painted) wood can't be seen from the ground (above the gutter) does not make it right. A partial fascia leaves an 'inlet' for water.

There are plenty of gutter brackets available that won't have you nailing through the roof, - - if you're re-installing a gutter with nail-holes already in it, - - either move it over 1/2" from where it was to 'miss' the old (no longer holding) holes in the wood fascia, - - or relocate it in the same place and 'add' a gutter nail 2" over from every existing gutter nail.

To avoid the aluminum wrinkling and waving, - - install it on a warm day, - - unroll your coilstock as soon as you get to the job and let it 'bask' (and expand) in the sun for at least an hour or two before installing, - - you want to install it in it's 'expanded' condition, - - also, - - any nails that are installed through your coilstock need to be installed in a hole that is larger than the shank of the nail to avoid 'dimpling', - - and to leave room for the stock to move slightly, - - for instance, - - when installing trim nails I always 'poke' a hole first (through the fascia only) with a roofing nail, - - then 'wriggle' it around 360 degrees while pulling it out (to enlarge it a little more). You want the nail heads to just barely touch the 'wrap'.

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Grumpy

A flashing, what tom called a drip cap should always be installed IMO. I took for granted that there may or may not be one. If there isn't one then there most definetly should be one.

As far as moving brackets, I feel this is a bad idea. When properly installed fasteners will be nailed into rafter tails and moving 1/2" could cause you to miss the rafter. I don't feel it's the best practioce to fasten to the fascia, you should fasten through the fascia.

mdshunk

I worked on a seemless gutter crew back when I was a teenager. The key to setting (or removing, in this case) long pieces is just the number of guys holding it. Two guys can do 30 or 40 feet with no problem. Eighty-one feet might require 4 or 5 guys. It sure would be nice to have the gutter down before the tear off, if that is your preference.

Tom R

Grump,

Although I agree it is definitely better to attach 'through' to rafter tails, - - installing gutter nails back in the same hole they were already yanked out of is useless.

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Grumpy

No argument here.

IHI

I started using construction adhesive years ago to thwart the typical wrinkles on open (gable ends) that are not covered by gutters. This helps 2 fold: 1. it temporarily holds your fascia metal in place and allows you use of both hands when digging for trimi nails/hammer 2. it prevents it from wrinkling and showing ocean waves when sun does come around if you start on shadey side of home. On larger fascia (over6" wide) I'll use one of the dies in the brake buddy to roll a bead of one shape or another in the fascia metal and this strengthens it up so much construction adhesive is not needed, but still used.

Guess it's easy to install wave free fascia on new construct and have found the only reason it does wwrinkle is becasue it's bound up somewhere-and it does'nt take much, but trying to get a flat run on some of these olders home would require sections of metal maybe 2' long since the fascia boards can get pretty disorted.

Would'nt recommend the "half fascia" as already stated. In situations where gutters are hung (all old houses and using spikes) I'll work a 8-10' section at a time removing the spikes, slide the new cap work behind the gutter and under drip cap, then reinstall new gutter spike screws to replace the normal spikes. I hate dropping gutters or dealing with/working around them but have to do what ya gotta do per job basis. The half fascia will only work if home has existing metal fascia and your score it right at the base of the gutter and remove it, you can then slide the new mini fascia metal up behind the old existing stuff.

My gutter guy does the hanging trick when he's by himself, temporarily wires up one end then prceeds to install the other end, he's done a few 50' plus jobs of mine that way when his help went MIA, otherwise the 2 of them have hung 125' runs no problems-just the 2 of them.

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Grumpy

IHI another way to reduce wrinkles on an older home is not nail the trim nails all the way down in the areas that area lower, and nail the trim nails all the way down in the areas that are higher.

roofdog_jr

Thanks again for all the good info, and conversation. As for the job I was telling you about, I think I have them convinced to have us install new gutters, in addition to the other work :Thumbs: . I will sub that part of the job out and be smiling all the way to the bank! So I won't even have to mess with droping, or working around, gutters...this job at least. Thanks!

IHI

Roofdog, that sounds like the best plan of attack yet. About 98% of the roofing/siding jobs I sell new gutters are just part of the deal, I know how much I hate messing with them trying to R&R them and for no more than they cost it's well worth it even if I had to have it come out of my end.

Grump, I've had to do the flating nails a few times in the past. Situation where homies dont wanna pay for material labor to have it replaced and done correctly so I get the "whatever it takes" from them. Hate doing things that way, but as we know situations dicatate kinda how we forced to do things.

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red_cedar

face nailing the fascia is no good,besides looking like crap, ever notice how down the road the nails work there way out. The adhesive and rivets are the way to go for a long last metal covering situation. IMO

IHI

How do you rivet into a material-residential is probably 90% wood-that expands and contracts with weather conditions-eventually even the bulb on the rivet would be worked loose. Not trying to start a fight, but just dont see how's that's plusable.

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red_cedar

I understand...It needs clarification.
nail the very upper portion of the fascia. here and there. That area is covered by some sort of metal edge flashing. Nail the the end of the metal that gives a solid area to rivet the overlapping piece to. An otion to this, is to fasten a piece( s ) of metal on the wood to where you are going to have your rivets.
I believe I have never had a rivet hold in wood. My understanding is rivets are used to hold together 2 pieces of metal to each other.

I have done it, ahesive, rivets, mostly concealed nails. Holds up and looks good.No nails working loose from from expansion and contraction, does not occur. Takes longer to do though.
I hope this helped clarify things ,

IHI

LMAO!! Okay, that makes alot more sense now. When we build gable end boxes and have float areas that is how we attach the aluminum together also with whtie rivets since they're the only thing that'll hold the 2 peices together :Thumbs:

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