Biased Opinion Or Fact?

oldfrt

I found this in DYI in response to someone looking for ideas on replacement windowin her home.

Biased Opinion or Fact?

As Posted by OP:

Now I"m totally confused. I spoke with a colleague who does a lot of architectural preservation work, and he sent me the following:

"I'd never use a vinyl replacement window, not because I'm a snob (although I am) but because I've yet to meet a manufacturer who'll guarantee me more than 10-15 years (AT MOST) on the product. As you no doubt know, the product consists of two layers of glass with something like argon pumped between them. As the window goes up and down and up and down, the gasket sealing the glass begins to fail. This results in almost certain clouding (and a gradual tailing off of the e-value.) So you're stuck with windows that are clouded and of dubious weather-tightness.

I think you get more bang for the buck by having the original windows (which of course, look nicer) reglazed. Then spend the money on a high-end storm system, properly caulked.

If you do go with a replacement window, then go with a clad unit (a Marvin, maybe) or a wood one with the sill. Even the most expensive windows you list here are frankly sh!t and they will eventually ding and look cheap."

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Tom Struble

to me 10-20 yrs is the usefull life of vinyl windows,maybe to 30 yrs for a clad unit
everything has a useful life span

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paul100

I think they are mistaken on a few points. Vinyl replacements windows do come with longer warranties. The company we use is B.F.Rich. They offer a lifetime warrnty with a 10year glass breakage warrnaty(breakage can include a rock hitting it or baseball or really anythign that breaks the glass)

I really dont know what "e-value" is. I have heard of r-value and u-value.

I dont know how lifting and closing a window will wear out the seal for the glass. I can see the weatherstripping around the sash wearing out from lifting but not the seal of the glass.

Patrick

We offer a lifetime warranty on frames, mechanical and glass for both seal failures and accidental breakage. Only one accidental break per year. But still thats for life and is backed up by the manufacturer. Of course we aint selling these things for $250 an opening either.

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

CScalf

doesn't certainteed offer lifetime warranty on the entire window?

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loneframer

The emissivity of a material (usually written ε or e) is the relative power of its surface to emit heat by radiation. It is the ratio of energy radiated by a particular material to energy radiated by a black body at the same temperature. It is a measure of a material's ability to radiate absorbed energy. A true black body would have an while any real object would have

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thermax

too bad this guy knows absolutely nothing about windows. a well engineered vinyl window with a high performance glass package can last for decades with no seal failure or matenance. try that with a wood window. the guys is full of crap.

HusqyPro

Perhaps this childhood photograph I found of the author will explain a few things.

Bad experience with vinyl leaking?

Attached Thumbnails

 

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72chevy4x4

back to reality...I've do a lot with the Simonton Reflections replacement and with 100% replacement for the first 20yrs and and 75% up to 50yrs - that's a selling point! some of their lines have the glass breakage warranty covering of all things a baseball...

a long time ago after purchasing a couple of windows for my own home from Lowes, just after 1yr the panels were clouding up...they wouldn't do a thing about it. That's why I don't sell a variety of windows brands-choose one reputable company and know your product.

For Tomt, why would they say a vinyl window has a 20yr lifespan versus 30yr for a clad window-is it the glass they claim if failing sooner?

buddy110

True. The main issue with vinyl windows is the coefficent of expansion and contraction compared to tat of glass. That's what causes the seal failures and air leaks. High performance fiberglass OTOH will outlast ANY vinyl window, regardless of the written warrantee.

Most high end vinyl window companies do. However it's almost always prorated after 10 years just like a roof

Century Man

The OP asked if his buddy was stating fact or offering opinion. I think opinion and regarding his position I learned that you can't argue with ignorance.

"I'd never use a vinyl replacement window, not because I'm a snob (although I am) but because I've yet to meet a manufacturer who'll guarantee me more than 10-15 years (AT MOST) on the product. As you no doubt know, the product consists of two layers of glass with something like argon pumped between them. As the window goes up and down and up and down, the gasket sealing the glass begins to fail. This results in almost certain clouding (and a gradual tailing off of the e-value.) So you're stuck with windows that are clouded and of dubious weather-tightness.

I think you get more bang for the buck by having the original windows (which of course, look nicer) reglazed. Then spend the money on a high-end storm system, properly caulked.

If you do go with a replacement window, then go with a clad unit (a Marvin, maybe) or a wood one with the sill. Even the most expensive windows you list here are frankly sh!t and they will eventually ding and look cheap."

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steel baron

Totally biased
I have seen more Pella Windows foggy, than steel or vinyl.
George

bconley

That photo resembles your avatar!

jaros bros.

This has already been discussed a few times on the forum. As someone mentioned above, vinyl contracts and expands wildly with the temperature. Take a vinyl window and stick it in a freezer and measure the dimensions at -20 F. Then take it out and stick it in the sun at 90 F. You'll find the stuff exerts a a tremendous mount of force on the seals as it contracts and expands.

Common sense tells me that is going to affect the performance of a window, especially when you restrict it with a nailing fin and make it 70 F on one side and -20 F on the other side. I have not seen a study how this affects performance.

Personal experience tells me that the more you pay for something, the better product you get. As someone once put it, "You can't have wine on a beer budget." Here in the Houston area where we get high temps and a blazing sun, I have yet to see a 10 year old vinyl window that operates easily. The jambs are distorted and they just don't operate well. I notice a lot of bowed sashes.

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buddy110

Well Pella is at best a mid grade window with some fancy bells and whistles

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welterweight

the statement about vinyl is misleading but also utter nonsense.
first off,Pella an average window as far as performance.
there are a few high end vinyl window companies that perform exceptionally well for long periods of time without bowing or seal failure. not only that,they blow wood windows out of the water when comparing their performance ratings. someone forgot to tell the OP that wood warps and rots.
the expansion and contraction rates at least on high end windows relative to their glass is negligable at best.
perhaps the OP never saw a soft lite elements window,or a gorell 5305,an Okna 800 ,a sunrise restoration,or even an old schuco. if he did,he would not have started this thread.

mudpad

[quote=72chevy4x4;798736]back to reality...I've do a lot with the Simonton Reflections replacement and with 100% replacement for the first 20yrs and and 75% up to 50yrs - that's a selling point! some of their lines have the glass breakage warranty covering of all things a baseball...

a long time ago after purchasing a couple of windows for my own home from Lowes, just after 1yr the panels were clouding up...they wouldn't do a thing about it. That's why I don't sell a variety of windows brands-choose one reputable company and know your product. quote]

Which just proves the fact that there are good vinyl windows and cheap crap vinyl windows as with most things. Now if the question is should you replace historically significant wood windows with vinyl my answer would be no. I guess I am a snob like the guy in the OP. There are too many options for rehabilitating old wood windows, up to and including having a millwork shop build reproductions, there are still plenty around that can do this.

Framer53

[quote=mudpad;841020]
I have some cheap vinyl windows in my house I bought and instaled 27YEARS AGO! Man were they cheap. I was going to replace all the windows in my house with wood replacements.. Not at the price I got the vinyl.

Shoot they even look good. Too bad so many people have a bias against vinyl.

mudpad

I don't have any problem with vinyl windows in the right locations. In new houses, if that's what you want, no problem. I installed them in my shop (cause like you said, man they were cheap!) But being kind of a historic preservation type, I don't think they have any place in a historic building that was built before vinyl or aluminum was available.

Tom Struble

i agree with the historical aspects,and there is some debate as to whether installing new replacements will ever be as coast effective as re glazing the old units and installing good storms

but that really would depend on the quality and soundness of the old units

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