Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen

 
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:33 PM   #1
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Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


I am just curious how others that sell the Traditional line of Andersen Windows in the replacement market inform homeowner of the difference between Renewal and Andersen. Renewal is huge in our market being Andersen is a local company here in MN. But most homeowner do not know the difference and assume if they want Andersen Windows they need to call Renewal. How do you point that out?
Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:31 PM   #2
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


I'm not sure that I understand your question... If that is the perception in your area, then RBA is doing a great job marketing. If you are asking what to tell people when you meet with them, simply point out that RBA is a bunch of independently owned franchises and dealerships that sell the same over-priced product made of vinyl and re-claimed sawdust. ... The high quality wood windows that Andersen has built their name and reputation on are almost completely unrelated.

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Old 02-23-2012, 12:58 AM   #3
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


Renewal is basically a replacement unit made by andersen. Some parts are the same, but they are not the same product. The gliding and hinged doors are the same as Andersen.
How to sell it??? Simple. What is better a Saturn car (when they were around) or a Caddilac? They are both the same company, GM, but completely different quality.

Also, RbA is not cheap. The company I do work for had an estimate done on a friends house and found that RbA was substantially more money than what they would charge for 400 series real Andersen with the new casing and capping the outside.

Just another vinyl replacement only somewhat better.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:05 AM   #4
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


I understand all the difference between the RBA and Andersen. I have worked with Andersen products for 20 years. Renewal is corporate owned in the Twin Cities, so they spend millions of dollars in marketing in our market. In the ball park of 7mil is what I hear. And get millions in return. People are always confused on what we are selling versus RBA. To answer homesealed, yes they do a great job confusing people.
When we do homeshows and #1 statement we get. I am confused. I thought RBA was the Traditional Andersen Windows. Which at homeshow it is easy to point out the difference as well as in the home.
What I am wondering. In other markets how do others that sell Andersen Windows call out the difference. Its easy once you are in the home selling to inform the homeowner. But I am trying to come up with a marketing idea to try and get that message out before we get in the home. We have tried pointing out the differences on marketing pieces and were told by Andersen (ie Renewal) we cannot do that.
Any ideas or thoughts.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:28 AM   #5
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


Why in the world would you sell a product from a company that is spending 7 million dollars a year marketing against you?

Unless you can turn that around to benefit from the marketing, we are all part of the same family or whatever, I would find some different products to carry.

Edit to add I have worked in 3 decent sized markets and Renewal was not much of a presence, your problem may be more of a local one.

Last edited by W-Tinc; 02-24-2012 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:44 AM   #6
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


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Originally Posted by MKnAs Dad
Renewal is basically a replacement unit made by andersen. Some parts are the same, but they are not the same product. The gliding and hinged doors are the same as Andersen.
How to sell it??? Simple. What is better a Saturn car (when they were around) or a Caddilac? They are both the same company, GM, but completely different quality.

Also, RbA is not cheap. The company I do work for had an estimate done on a friends house and found that RbA was substantially more money than what they would charge for 400 series real Andersen with the new casing and capping the outside.

Just another vinyl replacement only somewhat better.
Yeah Saturn had a fiberglass body that would not rust! Maybe he could find a fiberglass product to sell in the twin cities. Just saying...
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:30 AM   #7
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


i think Saturns have plastic bodies not fg....carry on...
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:54 AM   #8
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


I just had a Renewal by Andersen replacement sliding door put in. It was a custom size (oversize 6+ door) that had to match the exterior appearance according to the HOA. My back and knees would not permit me to do the work and I did not have all the tools to do it right.

The whole operation was totally professional. A salesman set up the appointment 2 days in advance and then called about 30 minutes before the scheduled time and asked if it woulf be O.K. if he came 10 minutes early. When he got there he had several cut-away sections of doors. He looked at the door briefly and recognized it but took a couple of measurements to verify that it had to be a custom size (which I knew). He answered all questions with facts. He then gave me a price after finding out what interior and exterior finished I wanted and what kind of trim (size, shape, material) for the interior. After all that he gave me a price, but my mother always said to sleep on a decision so I said I will decide (no pressure to buy at all). I called the next day and said yes.

About 2 hours later, I got a call from the guy to measure and he set up a day and time. He called 15 minutes before and arrived as scheduled and took many measurements and about 20 photos of details for the installed and possibly the manufacturing people.

The time involved in producing and delivering the window took about 2 weeks and I think the door was made in either Iowa, Illinois or Indiana (not important where).

The installer also called ahead and arrived on time. I did not tell him that I had taken the AAM class (sponsored by the major window suppliers) on window/door installation. The class was about $650 and most of the guys in the class were on the clock for 2 days and were working for builders, window installation subcontractors, testing companies or were inspectors/consultants, since the liability problems and employers insurance companies required a certification for installation.

The installer (a sub-contractor to Andersen) arrived with a pick-up and a large enclosed van with ladders on top. Inside the van, he had a work bench, folding work benches, generator, 2 compressors, 2 saws, a couple of nailers, hand power tools, a supply of trim (1x2 square maple for me), step ladders, vacuum cleaner, a refrigerated cooler filled with water and about a mile of extension cords.

He arrived at 9:00 AM and fought with the 30 year old townhouse and door. We have 2 cats, so went out to the trailer and brought in some pipe stands and mesh to fence off the inside area to prevent escape. He replaced some hidden rotted wood (sill, etc.) and was done about 11:30 AM. I watched everything while I sat at my computer without being in the way. He spent about 10 minutes explaining the tricks and use of the door, locks, future adjustments and explaining that he adjusted it to close too tight because the gasketing will loosen up in a month or so. Then he went out for the vacuum to clean up everything and then cleaned a few old spots on the carpet. The old door was removed and everything inside and outside was perfect. When talking to him, I said I had taken the certification class and it turned out we both had the same instructor at different times.

After that, he started to install the smoke and CO detectors in or near the bedrooms - included in the cost and required by most suburbs in the area. He had the permit inspection scheduled (included in the price) for 1:00PM and the inspector spent more time on the detectors, but be did look at all of the nailing and caulking and operate the door.

In general, it was done strictly the way it should have been done and very professional to a high standard. The price was actually a little less than 2 other replacement companies with windows of questionable quality, although they all probable get the glass units from the same manufacturers.

There is no question that I will use Renewal by Andersen on my next replacements if I can get the same installation sub-contractor.
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Last edited by concretemasonry; 02-24-2012 at 10:19 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:50 PM   #9
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


Did you price it out for andersen door as well as renewal?
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:50 PM   #10
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


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Originally Posted by MKnAs Dad View Post
Renewal is basically a replacement unit made by andersen. Some parts are the same, but they are not the same product. The gliding and hinged doors are the same as Andersen.
How to sell it??? Simple. What is better a Saturn car (when they were around) or a Caddilac? They are both the same company, GM, but completely different quality.

Also, RbA is not cheap. The company I do work for had an estimate done on a friends house and found that RbA was substantially more money than what they would charge for 400 series real Andersen with the new casing and capping the outside.

Just another vinyl replacement only somewhat better.
I agree with most of this except the last part. How exactly is it better than a premium vinyl unit? Performance ratings : Nope. Price: Generally no. Warranty: No... and the makeup of the material is mostly vinyl. It probably falls at about a B grade among vinyl windows, certainly no better.


Dick, it sounds like your experience was vastly different than most. 9 times out of 10 I hear about their high-pressure tactics, high prices ($1000+ per opening), and misleading presentations where they spread exaggerations and outright lies about vinyl windows, even though as I mentioned above, that is actually what their window is: A glorified vinyl product with a little something different to position themselves as a niche in the market.
Overall, i think that the product is fine, and generally the operations and installs are well done, its just the sales tactics and deception that I have a problem with. Hopefully you didn't pay more than $2k installed give or take. Lastly, was your door 75"? If so, that is a standard size for the vast majority of vinyl/replacement orientated manufacturers. Even if it is not and was "custom", it should be a very minimal upcharge.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:40 PM   #11
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


A door or a window is just a hole in a wall. No matter what number of layers of glass or types gas it is not much different than an uninsulated concrete block, except the radiant heat loss at night is much worse than a block wall. A sheet hung up at night makes world of difference in a cold climate.

I did shop around and had the dimensions and everyone said it was a custom oversize common to the late 1970s/early 1980s. The other prices were for bare doors and door I selected had the exterior and finishes (white vinyl) I needed. Through the years, I learned that the key to a good window is the installation since over 65% of the windows are not installed properly and done by uneducated "wood butchers". I make some money on the insurance and mold/moisture problems that are too common.

At least the sub-contractor installer did what was possible with the old townhouse with cheap vinyl over rotton composite siding. With back and knee problems, I could not do it my self, but I did know what should be done within reason. The other installed prices were a little higher or lower, but the guarantee, facts and reputation were not equal and the installation was flawless. I could have saved a buck or two, but that is not important when it is a north facing oversize slider looking out at 30' pines and my daily deer visitors. The "glue and sawdust filler" provides mass and actually is a benefit for stability, but the downside is that I cannot hear the thunderstorms or blizzard winds, which can actually be dangerous since you are removed from the outdoor conditions and get surprised when you go out in the car.
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Last edited by concretemasonry; 02-24-2012 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:33 PM   #12
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


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Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
A door or a window is just a hole in a wall. No matter what number of layers of glass or types gas it is not much different than an uninsulated concrete block, except the radiant heat loss at night is much worse than a block wall. A sheet hung up at night makes world of difference in a cold climate.

I did shop around and had the dimensions and everyone said it was a custom oversize common to the late 1970s/early 1980s. The other prices were for bare doors and door I selected had the exterior and finishes (white vinyl) I needed. Through the years, I learned that the key to a good window is the installation since over 65% of the windows are not installed properly and done by uneducated "wood butchers". I make some money on the insurance and mold/moisture problems that are too common.

At least the sub-contractor installer did what was possible with the old townhouse with cheap vinyl over rotton composite siding. With back and knee problems, I could not do it my self, but I did know what should be done within reason. The other installed prices were a little higher or lower, but the guarantee, facts and reputation were not equal and the installation was flawless. I could have saved a buck or two, but that is not important when it is a north facing oversize slider looking out at 30' pines and my daily deer visitors. The "glue and sawdust filler" provides mass and actually is a benefit for stability, but the downside is that I cannot hear the thunderstorms or blizzard winds, which can actually be dangerous since you are removed from the outdoor conditions and get surprised when you go out in the car.
I think that the entire building science community might take issue with that first part. If that was true, you should have just spent a few bucks on a good sheet, or purchased the cheapest product that you could find. The r-value of the material does not take into account the amount of air that will leak through an inferior product.
On the glue and sawdust providing "stability", what empirical data do you have to support that? Certainly not structural testing data on the window. That's called a sales gimmick.
A 75" width is very common to 70's and 80's homes and as i said, is offered as standard through most replacement manufacturers, or for a very small upcharge. Its commonly referred to as a WI door. If the other contractors that you spoke to all said the same (that it is custom) and all had similar pricing (I assume that it is higher than the # that I mentioned) than you were calling the wrong kind of companies.
Either way, I guess the important part is that you are happy with it. If the installers did a good job, that is definitely half the battle. It sounds like the RBA in your area is one of the better outfits.

Last edited by HomeSealed; 02-25-2012 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:15 AM   #13
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperiorR View Post
I am just curious how others that sell the Traditional line of Andersen Windows in the replacement market inform homeowner of the difference between Renewal and Andersen. Renewal is huge in our market being Andersen is a local company here in MN. But most homeowner do not know the difference and assume if they want Andersen Windows they need to call Renewal. How do you point that out?
Thanks!
Yeah RBA was a kick in the balls to established Andersen dealers and their huge marketing budget is effective. They participate in virtually every print ad in the KC market. When asked the difference I love to answer " at the end of the day they sweep the floor and make Renewal windows with whats left over" A mild exageration but somewhat accurate. None of it matters anymore with HD now the largest distribitor of core product. I've heard all sorts of things such as they will install window recycling stations in larger markets. I did lose one job to them where the existing header on a 9' opening had sagged and pinched the flanking windows shut. I told the homeowner it was a better fit for my co as the header needed replacment. RBA said it wasn't a problem and sold it anyway. Go figure. At the end of the day there is so much competetion for window replacment ya can't worry about any one company no matter who it is.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:16 AM   #14
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


Just saw my post count and ahh didn't really want to leave it there.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:18 AM   #15
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


Sorry to bust anyone's bubble, but RbA is considered a cheap replacement window here with a weak warranty.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:09 PM   #16
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


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Sorry to bust anyone's bubble, but RbA is considered a cheap replacement window here with a weak warranty.
There is nothing cheap about them...price wise.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:34 PM   #17
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


Cheap as compared to what? The array of replacement windows is huge, with aluminum-clad wood, all-wood, vinyl-clad wood, all extruded hollow vinyl, all extruded aluminum, pultruded fiberglass out with wood in, all pultruded fiberglass, and Renewal's Fibrex extruded materials.

Do they look cheap to you when you see them in displays at a Renewal dealer?

I know Andersen pretty well from inside their organization, and the Renewal line and the way it is distributed was set up as a completely different business from their "prime" core product lines and their distribution. Renewal is a replacement window, sold furnished-and-installed only by Renewal dealers.

Two different businesses entirely. Replacement and prime. Prime is for new-construction, mostly, but some will use flanged prime windows as replacement windows.

Renewal dealers are not stepping on Andersen dealers at all.

Last edited by UpNorth; 03-10-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:31 AM   #18
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Re: Andersen Windows Vs. Renewal By Andersen


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There is nothing cheap about them...price wise.
Correct.

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