220/221

Lights flickering....lights out....turn on oven, lights on.

Simple....lost leg at service.

Look up at overhead connections and find an obvious bootleg service change circa 1980 something. Climb up to take a closer look.....



Tell me that's not a romex connector????



OK....so it's a two screw romex connector. At least I solved the problem ......right?

POCO comes out right away and puts on new crimps. While waiting I cut off the tape to look for burned/oxidized wire.......nothing





Put a load on it and hear some arcing behind the main. Pried it off, cleaned up some pitting on the bus, found a suitable replacement 3 miles away at the Depot.

Normally I would insist on a service change but these older folks were on a fixed income (aren't we all) and I figured I could safely squeeze another decade or two out of it.


,,

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Speedy Petey

That's the same breaker?
Weren't the wires a bit short? Did the cover line up?

__________________

mickeyco

WTF!

__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

master mason

220, let me tell you a simalar story that happened to me a few years back.Our microwave would loose power when turned on.It would still run but not heat anything.I checked all the things a dumb bricklayer would check, breakers,gfi's ,receptical,plug.....ect. and can't find any visable signs of a problem origin.So Idid the next best thing,I called my buddy an electrician.Because I believe if you need a haircut,you see a barber,car don't run a mechanic...ect.you get the picture.He came over and got into our 2 -150 amp. panels(square D) and he couldn't find anything wrong.He said it had to be a utility co. problem,so I called them.A sub contractor showed up about 7:30 pm just as a big July thunder storm began.He told me he had to pull the disconnect and we would'nt have power for a while.So to pass the time I listened to the Orioles lose again on a batt.operated radio.The O's were away so the rain did'nt stop the game but it sure stopped the subcontracter electrician,all he did was sit in the truck with the dome light on and the amber becon roof light flashing in my bedroom window.Just about the time it stopped raining,the dude knocked on my door and said his alotted time to trouble shoot that he was allowed was over and he had to leave,(without doing a dam thing I must say),but that another company was sending another crew.They arrived about 12:00 am 4 men strong.My ser.comes to the house underground right unde my bedroom window and with no ac the window was open . Well try and get some sleep when your sweating buckets and you have 4 noisy electicians just underneath your window.Well about 4 am the boss woke me up knocking on the door. He wanted to see the panels again. I'm outside no when he tell one of his guys to put in the disconnect. When he did I saw a flash of light across the street on the pole where the transformer is.Me being a dumb bricklayer asked the boss if it's suppose to spark on the pole when he plugs in the disconnect.He said "WHAT". So I told him to watch the pole while his helper pulled the disconnect,BAM!!! another spark amagine that!!!!!! Just then the boss yelled at Ray "dammit I told you we should have brought the bucket truck and you said we would'nt need it".!@#*#@!* '"now go back to the shop and get it you

220/221

Technically not the same.


Original was Murray. New one is Seimans.

They made two styles. One with lugs fed from the top (existing) and one with side fed lugs (the only one I have been able to find in the past 5 years). The cover fits exactly and the screw that holds the breaker in line up exactly.

I DID have to put new conductors from the meter lugs to the breaker. Technically it is "remanufacturing" but...



If you ever come across these Murry 200A red breakers, they are notorious for failing at the buss recepticals. This one doesn't LOOK too bad but part of the clip just fell out. It would have melted down next summer.
.

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Magnettica

I've done that before.

Well, I've been told to do that before.

Do whatever the guy who's signing your check says to do, right?

P.S. You guys sure are funny with those exterior panels. j/k

__________________
Classic Electric LLC
Repairs, Renovations, Rehabilitation

InPhase277

Well, a 3/4" romex connector is a fabulous quick fix for a temporary hookup. Done it a dozen times, and seen others do it too... But I have never seen one left for very long... sheesh!

Had a service call once where the guy says his lights are dimming when he turns on the microwave or washer. My employer at the time went and checked out on his way home the day before, and said the voltage was normal at the service. He couldn't figure it out, so he left. I went out the next day. When the customer turned the microwave on, the voltage would drop to 95 volts. OK.... I noticed a fresh trench in the yard, but didn't think much of it at first, the service came from overhead...

The HO got to talking to me and mention that they had just replace the main water line, cause it was old galvanized that had rusted through...

AHA! They replaced it with PVC. They hadn't had a service neutral for who knows how long. All the neutral current was going through the old water line! The only ground left in the system was a 4' ground rod at the meter. I know it was 4' because I pulled it up by hand...

I tell him all this, and he says "oh yeah, the plumber mentioned getting a slight shock when he was working on it the other day..."

Well, up on the roof... squirrels, yes squirrels!, had gnawed through the neutral! Who knows how long they lived without a service neutral.

Anyhow, long story I know, I did a quick romex connector fix on the neutral, until the POCO came out to work on it.

InPhase277

JamesNLA

WHAT? Without the neutral for a few milliseconds would be a disaster on anything plugged in that was 220. Even with a steel or copper water service.....that doesn't replace or even remotley act like a neutral.

__________________
"....And then we all switch places when I ring the bell"
-Adrock

InPhase277

You're kidding right?

InPhase277

220/221

Well...it doesn't replace it but it sure as hell will try it's best to act like one.

Once in a while a plumber gets electrocuted disconnecting pipes.

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Magnettica

That's because those electrons are always trying to go back to their source by any means possible. Sometimes they even flow through the neighbors grounded (neutral) conductor to get there!

__________________
Classic Electric LLC
Repairs, Renovations, Rehabilitation

jrclen

"There is no restaurant in the ground that the electrons want to go to. They want to return to the source, and they will use the ground (earth) to get there."

One of my first instructors back in the late 60's explaining grounding, ground rods, and earth. Back then we were taught that ground rods and water pipes were protection against open service neutrals. Sounded ok at the time. I had an old lineman tell me the same thing back in the 80's. He must have had the same instructors I did. Of course we all know better now. Right?