Service Upgrade

JamesNLA

100A - 200A

did the grounding and stucco removal the day before.

with stucco repair and paint, total time was 10 about hours.
Price was 2400, and I threw in a circuit rewire (someone connected the gas stove and recept to the 50A branch of the 240 oven)
I also did the water heater.
This pic is on another thread too!

mdshunk

I just noticed that you said you did the water heater too. Those Rinnai water heaters are getting popular in my area lately. Did you ever notice on the instructions that they are to be GFCI protected? I never noticed that until I was looking for the amp draw in the documentation. It's something like 1 amp, but it did clearly say that the unit was to be GFCI protected. I thought I'd pass that along so nobody gets blindsided by a savvy inspector. By the way, I don't notice the required disconnect in your picture, but the picture is a bit small. I've been using a snap switch in a handy box right below the uinit. I wish they'd just build something into it from the factory.

JamesNLA

OK, have a look



I have installed over 30 of these.....plumbing was my first trade and still have more experience with that. This is a Noritz 6.9M. IMHO I think these are by far the very best in tankless heaters. I have installed the Rinnai's the Bosches, and the Takagi's. While the bosch isn't worth the effort it takes to do these properly, the other 3 are all very good units. I just favor the Noritz. Boxers or briefs i guess.
In fact I just sold another one today, and that goes in friday. I love making rent in one day!

"something like 1 amp"

documentation says "up to 15A" With a degree in electrical engineering I guestimate with the blower at max, maybe 5-7 amps. The ignigter is less than an amp, maybe 600 mA.

"I don't notice the required disconnect in your picture, but the picture is a bit small. I've been using a snap switch "

disconnect.....hmmm, do you mean an electrical disconnect? If so, there is no requirement to have anything other than a properly grounded GFCI. If you meant shut off valves, please see the ISO valves. This is a option that I have done on everyone I have done. The ISO valves allow me to flush the house (of flux) prior to circulating water through the unit. I can also close off both hot and cold (airless lock) to service .....whatever needs servicing. The main feature is being able to perform a limescale and calcuim flush. Get a bucket with a fish pump, put some water and CLR and run it through the .4 Gal bladder to keep the life expectency to around 20 years. I tell customer with hard water, at lease once a year, and those with soft, every 2 years, And I also tell them to read their manual

EDIT:
I stand corrected as the install manual has been revised. Electrical section reads:

"Breaker Installation:
Mount a device which shuts off the electrical
path automatically (leakage breaker) when
electrical leakage is detected."

LOL, they also say, "make sure the ground has less than 100 Ohms" ......let them stick to plumbing
http://www.noritz.com/pdf/n6369_wiring.pdf

Speedy Petey

What MD is referring to is the required service disconnect. Is this unit literally plugged in close by? If so that is your disconnect.
If it is hard wired to the GFI device box then you do by code need some sort of disconnect switch.

__________________

mdshunk

Wow... James is a bit touchy, eh?

Jeeze, I was just trying to help other guys out. Not accusing you of anything at all. This unit does look a lot like the Rinnai unit from the first picture. The Rinnai does draw right around an amp for while running, and about .7 amps at idle.

The required disconnect I was referring to was the one that still appears to be missing from your larger picture. Granted, the panel may be nearby and might qualify as the required disconnect.

Calm down a notch or two. I'm actually a nice guy.

JamesNLA

I apologize if I sounded a rude, I truley meant no disrespect or to sound like an ass. It was a defensive reply to what I thought you were saying was incorrect. Again, please accept my apologies.

The Noritz looks very similar and a home owner would never know the difference based on performance.

The disconnect is just under the remote, however I forgot to get pictures as it was nothing all that impressive. I'll take some tomorrow on the next one. Make sure to do electrical extra clean as to not get an ear full

And I believe you are a nice guy, I have read many of your post, and appreciate the effort and what you contribute.

[Speedy Petey]

The unit is hardwired

mdshunk

Is the class 2 remote controller cable in the same raceway as the ac power in your installation???

macmikeman

Thats it, just go ahead and get him all mad again..........

RobertWilber

Has anyone here come across a purely electric flash heater for whole-house water heating?

mdshunk

Yes, I've wired two in the past, supplied by the fitters. Both were different brands, but both had a draw of around 150 amps. They take 5, 30 amps feeds, and the elements come on staged. I wouldn't install one in a house unless it had a service bigger than 200 amps. In fact, in my area, two of the power companies want you to notify the engineering department to let them know that such equipment is being installed.

RobertWilber

Thanks MD
guess I get to sell them a 400 amp service too ...

BTW-your private message address kicked back

mdshunk

Probably so.

Both of the one's I wired I got totally blind sided with. Just showed up one day, and there they were. "Hey, wire this thing up too", they tell me. "Whoa, wait a minute", I respond.

mdshunk

Yeah, that email address had been kicking around so long, I got more non-sensical mail than legit.

JamesNLA

"Thats it, just go ahead and get him all mad again.........."

Dear Lord, that is too damn funny!!

Actually I learned a valuable lesson on that one. I totally had no idea on that one. I looked it up and had accept I screwed up. Called the HO and pulled the bell wire out of the emt, and re-ran it.

I did want to show my appreciation for MD's ......thoughts for me!
So etched in #2 pencil at someones back corner of their utility closet is the following:


--> <--

jbfan

Thats too funny! If it happens, then MD can have his dream of wearing P J,s all day at work!

__________________
We are the people (our parents warned us about) (Jimmy Buffett)

DaveTap

WAIT!!! Is that romex in that cord cap?
Romex can not be exposed.
Cord caps are approved for stranded wire only.

mdshunk

Romex cannot be terminated in a cord cap in accordance with the UL general guide.

Romex may be exposed, but not exposed to physical damage, in accordance with NEC chapter 3.

I wasn't sure if that was romex in that cord cap, or white jacketed SJT. I was kinda done picking on this poor guy. It's obvious that there are (were) numerous violations.

DaveTap

I couldn't be sure, but with the indents it sure looks like NM-B.
Well it sounds like it was an earlier job... before he learned better... and at least my initials aren't plastered on the wall so the inspector will be looking for you... LOL

JamesNLA

LOL, This is just comedy.....

FYI, it is not Romex.
This was actually a pigtail but the ground blade was snaped off. I had not noticed it when I bought it. So I put a cord cap on the STRANDED pigtail.

However there was no inspector on this one so MD is good, until the next one I do!!

(edit) MD, you can pick on me anytime, should I ever make the brilliant decision to post any more of my work, I'll expect a full violations report, with subchapters addressed for a proper dissection

DaveTap

James... what kind of stranded cord was it? The only stranded cord I've seen in an off white that shows dimples like that is speaker wire.