New Basement Circuit

dcapone

As a low voltage installer looking to install a new 20 amp circuit in my own basement for some electrical outlets, I was hoping to get some input from experienced electricians on here to make sure I am staying within code.

Essentially I am looking to add 3 outlets to the basement via a new circuit.

First off, a basic question as to whether it matters what bus the new breaker is added to. While I understand either bus will provide the 120 Volts needed, I am unsure if there is some type of standard (or requirement for that matter) that governs where the breaker is installed. I attached a picture my panel with the 3 open slots remaining. Part of me wants to install the breaker on the right bus to "balance" the breakers out and part of me wants to occupy the last slot on the left side with the rationale that it would allow a double pole breaker to more easily be installed in the future on the right side if one is needed. Are there any rules or guidelines for this?

More importantly, with respect to NEC code and receptacles installed in unfinished basements, I am aware that GFCI is required. Does it need to be implemented at the circuit breaker level? Do all outlets need to be GFCI receptacles? If I understand the requirements correctly, I believe I have 2 options to properly install this circuit. Option 1 being to use a GFCI breaker (in my case THQL1120GFI) in the panel in which case I can use your basic 20 amp receptacles at all 3 outlets positions and be done and within code. Option 2 would use a standard breaker (THQL1120 in my case), a GFCI receptacle as the FIRST outlet feeding from the panel, and the 2 additional outlets in the basement being your standard 20 amp receptacles feeding off the "Load" terminals of the GFCI receptacle.

Lastly, is there any problem with attaching the outlets to the floor joists overhead? Is it ok to attach an outlet to a 2x4 that is power fastened to the foundation and nailed to the floor joist above?

Anything anyone sees wrong with my thinking?

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MALCO.New.York

Call your Plumber.

Sorry. Wrong thread and wrong topic!!!

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mickeyco

Assuming this is a romex house, can yo do that, see below:


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dcapone

Hi Mickey,

If I am analyzing your arrows correctly, you are most likely taking issue with the fact that the 240 breakers used a cable that is not the standard black for the second live wire coming off of the breaker. I did not install either of those circuits and while it is definitely not excuse, both of those circuits are dedicated for the A/C and as such may have been marked on the other end of the cable by whoever did the installation.

Likewise, if you are referring to the installation of multiple neutrals/grounds attached to a single terminal of the neutral/ground bar, that wasn't my work either.

In addition to the problems you have mentioned, there is 4 conductor, probably 6 gauge wire that is left in the box that has its neutral and ground connected to the ground bar with the 2 additional conductors left dangling in the box taped with electrical tape. As mentioned, my professional work is low-voltage, but I can't imagine that something like that can be within code.

Bkessler

It is very common to use a white wire as a conductor for a two wire 240 volt appliance. It could be taped a color but I usually just leave it white. Any electrician will know exactly what it is.
Some lugs are rated for more than one wire, but I am not sure if it is in this panel.
And if your referring to the grounds with the neutrals it is OK if this is the main service panel as the neutral and ground are bonded here.

dcapone

Hi B,

It would be the main (and only) service panel. Not sure who your reply was directed at, but I was enumerating what I believed to be the "problems" mickey had pointed out.

You wouldn't happen to want to provide some input on if I have the requirements for the new circuit correct or not, would ya?

send_it_all

GET TO WORK!!!! lol

mickeyco

Doesn't the legality of doing that depend on the gauge of the wire.


Not if they are in the middle of the circuit, might not be an issue if it's an uninterrupted run in romex, but if was in conduit with a box (for pulling or to reset max bending degrees) and someone happened along to install an extra circuit or something.



I was just referring to the double tapping, I also think a few of those wires are a bit long through the bar, not a huge deal jut a little OCD bothersome.





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wireless

You can only do that with romex or #4 or bigger THHN.

Magnettica

Just identify "the hots" with a sharpie. Black, red, or blue - does not matter.

Like this:

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Bkessler

Did you sharpie the white's blue? That is not a bad idea.


I have no problem using a 10/ 12 /14-2 romex for a two wire 240 volt circuit. I do not even tape the white another color, although I like Magnettica's suggestion. I will also use a 12-2 or 10-2 MC cable for a 20 or 30 amp two wire 208-240 volt circuit(copier). Using the white is done with SO/SJ cord all the time. I will not however tape or color a white thhn in pipe or cable tray or in any situation.

I still will use the white's in romex for switchloops, travelers or constant power on three/fourways. I used to use 10-2 romex for dryers but now they require a three wire circuit.

Bkessler

Yeah your good to go!

kbsparky

You can plug in that breaker anywhere and it should function just fine.

You can either use a GFI breaker, OR install the GFCI device at the first outlet, or both if you want a lot of redundancy ...

Lots of the guys here probably think that you are making a mountain out of a molehill ....

Magnettica

Inspectors around here have been enforcing that (identifying ungrounded conductors) for years now. I cut-in the switch as I normally would, then bend back the conductors into the box, then color up the white so the inspector sees that it's been done.

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Bkessler

And you leave the conductor thats been colored right there in the front for the inspector to see.

InPhase277

Only for wire that's not already part of a listed cable assembly.


If it is a cable, such as romex or MC, then you can re-identify the white conductor as a hot. Of course this only need be done at splices, 'cause it's real hard to color it inside the cable jacket.

No white wire of any size can be pulled into a conduit and then re-identified.

Bkessler

Or gray.