ICF Custom Home, Bristow, Oklahoma - Page 2 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Chris Johnson · 06-28-2009, 09:27 AM

Can you open up the foam where the red heads are being installed and pack with grout?

I hate seeing something structural span 2 1/2" of foam without a solid backing or connection.

160lbs, is that just clay brick?

**framerman** · 06-28-2009, 11:27 AM

That's pretty interesting Jay. I've always been a wood guy, but it's real nice to have some education on other methods.

tgeb · 06-28-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson
Remove foam to concrete, 4x6x1/4 angle iron.

What is the local requirement for brick ties there?

A change like that now gets expensive unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis

The exposed walls above the porches are less then 8 feet, so it comes down to about 160 pounds vertical load per foot. I don't want to cut the exterior foam, but rather seat the ledger to the wall...probably with redheads, and then brick ties ever 5 course. I have had one bid for 46k labor, and a low bid at $8700....

I have a couple of ideas for this.

1). Studs (2-1/2") welded to the back side of the steel angle, staggered top and bottom. these would end up embedded into the foam and contact the concrete wall when the anchors are tightened.(Drilling the foam out of the path of the stud so it is not compressing the foam.)
This would lock the the steel angle and you would still have most of the insulating value of the foam.

2). A piece of "C" channel iron 2-1/2" X ? with a plate welded to the bottom that projects out to act as a brick ledge. This would be anchor bolted with the channel projecting into the foam and making contact with the concrete wall.

I actually think this would be the stronger option, but more loss of insulating value due to the steel contacting the concrete. You would have to cut through the foam and ties to get it set flush.

What do you think?

neolitic · 06-28-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgeb

I have a couple of ideas for this.

1). Studs (2-1/2") welded to the back side of the steel angle, staggered top and bottom. these would end up embedded into the foam and contact the concrete wall when the anchors are tightened.(Drilling the foam out of the path of the stud so it is not compressing the foam.)
This would lock the the steel angle and you would still have most of the insulating value of the foam.

2). A piece of "C" channel iron 2-1/2" X ? with a plate welded to the bottom that projects out to act as a brick ledge. This would be anchor bolted with the channel projecting into the foam and making contact with the concrete wall.

I actually think this would be the stronger option, but more loss of insulating value due to the steel contacting the concrete. You would have to cut through the foam and ties to get it set flush.

What do you think?

I'd like to see detail pix when
Jo actually does this detail.

What about short (12"?) pieces
of say, 3X6 angle bolted vertically
every 4' as kind of knee braces
under the angle?
You could weld them together
and fill in the foam over the bolted
leg of the vertical angles.
Clear as mud right?

**joasis** · 06-28-2009, 06:46 PM

The actual method I am going to use will be to use steel sleeves, 1/2 inch wall, with a 5/8 bore and 2-1/2 inches long. Drill for the 5/8 red head, which is a 9 inches, then cut out the circle for the sleeve, install the bolt. Then when the red head is tightened after the lintel is on, the sleeve acts like a washer back to the wall. Easy, quick, and simple. 3 or 4 feet on center, these will hold up 20 times more load then the brick, which will be queen size, 5 and 20 lbs to the sq/ft, 7 feet high, 300 lbs. per bolt give or take.

Great ideas, but I am not cutting out the foam to direct set the lintel. It would work, but what a pain.

tgeb · 06-28-2009, 07:13 PM

I had considered a sleeve as well but thought the studded angle might be better/easier, but then I have never worked with the ICF systems.

I did get a sample block a few weeks ago though, and have been pushing it to the builders I work with.

Chris Johnson · 06-28-2009, 07:42 PM

I would consider welding a 1/2" plate every couple of feet to the back of the angle to create positive contact to the concrete wall, it will require a notch thru the foam but will help elimate any possible sheer from the weight.

I realize the bolt can handle the load, but I always get concerned when it is cantilevered.

I could also just be nervous because of where I live as well!!!

neolitic · 06-28-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson

I would consider welding a 1/2" plate every couple of feet to the back of the angle to create positive contact to the concrete wall, it will require a notch thru the foam but will help elimate any possible sheer from the weight.

I realize the bolt can handle the load, but I always get concerned when it is cantilevered.

I could also just be nervous because of where I live as well!!!

Yeah, back here the ground
doesn't move so much,

but once in a while the sky
will come and get you!

**joasis** · 06-28-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgeb

I had considered a sleeve as well but thought the studded angle might be better/easier, but then I have never worked with the ICF systems.

I did get a sample block a few weeks ago though, and have been pushing it to the builders I work with.

I told you Tom, I would come up and give a few lessons!

mics_54 · 07-07-2009, 10:42 PM

So..how much would a house like that cost in Bristow, Ok.?

**joasis** · 07-08-2009, 06:03 AM

It will finish for less then 300k.

mics_54 · 07-08-2009, 01:10 PM

I was looking for more of a $/sqft number. Just trying to figure out the market there. I may have to move back to that area to help out my aging folks for a while. I was looking at some job ads and labor seems very low. I probably wont be building homes but I thought the average sqft figues would give me a better idea as to the job market than ads for trade employees.

**joasis** · 07-08-2009, 07:41 PM

New home costs, meaning true cost, is running less then $70. This house is far from typical, and when viewed from the "enclosed space" aspect, and then at interior framing, it is holding less then 60 on about 5800 total feet.

OGStilts · 07-08-2009, 07:54 PM

I'm jealous, I've been wanting to do one of these for a couple of years.

mics_54 · 07-08-2009, 07:58 PM

I'll be waiting for some pictures of the finished house. I've used alot of ICF for foundation/crawls up here. but with concrete at 130 a yard it isnt very popular for much more in the residential market. Last I crunched the numbers new home construction was pushing $150/sqft.

**joasis** · 07-11-2009, 07:45 PM

Here are pictures from Friday:

**joasis** · 07-11-2009, 07:49 PM

A few more....plumbing and electrical

mics_54 · 07-11-2009, 07:51 PM

Excellent! I like the metal roof.

**joasis** · 07-11-2009, 07:59 PM

A few more views. The first is what the foil back looks like under the steel roof. For those interested, the homeowner took a thermometer up on the 3rd floor, where this view was taken, and measured the temp at 86 degrees, it was 105+ outside. Yes, there is a lot of ventilation through the house right now, but the lower temperatures we see are typical in ventilated attics when we install this under a steel roof. Takes a load off of AC.

The last picture shows the outdoor living area, framed in 6x6 rough western cedar. The concrete was dyed and an antique release in charcoal, Roman slate rolled.

mics_54 · 07-11-2009, 08:07 PM

will the room in the attic be living space (heated and cooled)? If so I assume you will insulate the roof at the rafters with rigid foam between the rafters with a space behind it for air flow.