Scribe Door Or Re-fit Jamb

Chris G

I'm hanging some interior double doors, (solid). They're vintage doors going into a "vintage" house (meaning out of square).

The jamb is out of square, (about 1" over 48" at the top). The sides are little bit of out of plumb and the floor is little out of level.

The casing is pretty basic and could probably withstand pulling it off.

I think I'd have to scribe all four sides of the doors to make them fit in the existing opening.

So the question is do, I cut the door, or fix the jamb? What's quicker? Normally I cut the door, especialy if it's a single door. But if I make a wrong cut on the doors, I'm left with trapezoid doors without a trapezoid frame to fit them in. Mistakes on jambs can be fixed...

Gordo

Its a hard call without actually seeing the whole picture.

If you go the scribe method, then I suggest 'planeing' the doors.

With a little practice on some scrap you can perform a 'tapered' plane line (adjusting the planer depth while simultaneously making your pass). Start shallow. You may want to make a couple of passes to get the desired result.

I learned this technique while building surfboards.

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Tom R

Fix the jamb legs and jamb head, - - hang them square and plumb.

Why do all that work to end up with crooked doors??

All that time wasted doing them wrong can be applied to doing them right.

Any 'time lost' will be re-gained by direct application to your REPUTATION.

The only part that's acceptable (or even preferred) to be out of square or level is the bottom, - - let it 'ride' with the floor, - - 3/4" or 1" gap, - - measured only at each end. It'll look straight when it's done.

theworx

Tom, there you go again with yet another threatening post. Get a handle on yourself man !!! Tom is absolutely correct in everything he said. I just wanted to add, be very careful removing and replacing that casing if it's vintage as well. The wood will be very dry and brittle and will split easily both on removal and re-install. Good luck with your project!!!

reveivl

Don't damage the door, (if you have the jamb)

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dayspring

Just a thought, You said the floor is unlevel, You may attempt to level the floor from underneath, settling of the house (floor joist)may be the main problem. Then see how bad it all looks and make adjustments to Jamb.

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maj

I'll agree with the herd here.

Try daysprings approach first, if you can get below and try to get the walls & floor level and plumb, the door may "fall" in place...... but most likely not.

Then just carefully pull the casings and jambs and rehang plumb & level. Once you go cutting a square door out of square, it is pretty much ruined afterthat.

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Chris G

Thanks for the replies! I'm totally in agreement now. I was leaning towards re-doing the jamb from the outset, but searching here and reading Gary Katz's book on Installing and hanging doors, it seamed like a lot of the pros went the scribing route, but it just didn't make sense to me in this case. A lot easier to fix the jamb in my opinion.

I'll have a look below at the joist below, but to be honest the head of the jamb and the floor are out of level in opposite directions, so I just be making it worse.

Gordo, I assume you're using a power plane? Mine was stolen a couple of years ago, and I've since renewed my passion for hand planes.

Thanks again.

Gordo

Yes, a power plane.

I was under the impression these 'vintage' doors were already hung (existing). Went back and re-read that these doors are 'loose'.

Definitely address the floor issue, if possible, first. Then like everybody else said.

Sorry about the 'bad'.

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VitoFromNJ

Being no stranger to 'vintage' work, I would make the door fit the space. As long as you have even spacing between door, door jamb, and saddle, and the door opens, closes and latches, then you did the best possible work with the materials and situations given.

Webs

After hanging new slabs on old jambs, I have found that it is much easier to just buy the whole new jamb along with the door. I have had to cut the jamb out and even resize the deminsions of the jamb before. Not a whole lot of fun.

Gordo

Like I said earlier, its a hard call without seeing the whole picture.

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415moto

never heard the term "scribe" used in this context, whats the definition?

Tom R

To me, - - 'scribe' means to follow, or to copy, or to contour.

Usually in carpentry, - - to follow the contour.

Doesn't really sound like the right word to me for this application, either, - - but I can't seem to think of another one . . .

I usually use it to de(scribe) a curved or irregular contour, - - whereas a door, even if it is off, is usually at least off in a straight line (hopefully, anyway).

Anyone out there got a better term??

Or are we gonna have t' just make one up, - - and swear it was always so??

karma_carpentry

I think here it means to copy the outline of the jamb, with an appropriate offset. "Scribe" as in 'copying a varied surface to fit another piece to it'.

In most cases, I recut or plane the bottoms of doors with a straight line: a "simplified scribe". Sometimes I will scribe and plane out a curve, but only if the floor is really curved and the fit is meant to be tight (for weatherseal, as in the basement door. I do this often here in Boston, and I don't even think about straightening out the whole house frame for a sticking door. Just don't think the cost can be justified. Workin in these old houses, I learn to let sleeping dogs lie.

But 1" in 48 is a lot. How does it look to the eye? I guess that's the relevant question. Also - if you do fit the doors instead of squaring out the jamb, will the doors crash into the floor anywhere? Those are factors that would help me decide which way to go. And how much moula the homeowner wants to throw at you.

Nick H

Whenever I've fitted new doors into old frames (jambs) I generally fit the door to the frame as it stands, I have sometimes been able to plane the sides of the jamb in situ to try and straighten it up a bit. Other than that, unless I've been specifically asked to redo the frame then it stays as it is, that can be a lot of the character in older houses. I dont think my clients would thank me for straightening up their 200 year old crooked house.

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Chris G

Yeah it's just a straight scribe. No countour.

If it was an entrance door I wouldn't think of fixing the jamb in an old house. But these are a pair of French Doors separating the dining room from the living room. It's going to be the gaps around the sides and top, and most importantly, the middle, that will define a good installation.

I'll take some pics next week if I get a chance.

And by "vintage" I mean about 75 years old. I reserve "Historical for houses over 100 years old. That's when you start to get into some beautiful detaling. I just seems like after 1920 interior finish went all basic. Maybe a lot of good finish carpenters died in WW1. Dunno...

Gordo

I think it was the Great Depression that squashed all that trim detailing.

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Nick H

Over here we are surrounded by buildings with some of the most amazing detailed and elaborate work on them. It makes you wonder sometimes how they did it, but then you have to think that a skilled artisan probably worked 12 hours a day, 6 1/2 days a week for barely enough to feed himself and his family. Labour was cheap and so the wealthy could afford to be "extravagant" with their designs.

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415moto

thanks for the info Tom and Karma.

Personally, if the jambs are that off, I'd prefer to pull the casings if they can be pulled safely and straighten the side and top out.