Screw Jacks And My 2nd Story Porch. Help

zoso

I have rot at the base of a support for a 2nd story porch, and another above that one.How do I raise the structure, support it and put in a block to replace the rot? Are there better methods?

RobertCDF

I use 2x4 or 2x6 and make a T post |-- and use a bottle jack.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
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jproffer

Mike, what are you talking about? Being on this forum and not the other side, we have to assume he is some sort of contractor, or at very least has some knowledge/skill in the trades. This is not that complicated a job. Jack up one post at a time, cut out the bad one, put in the new one, let it down. It's not that hard, nor is it that dangerous if you use a little common sense, such as:

- Don't remove all posts at once. Even rotton, they're holding SOMETHING...let them do that until you're ready to change them.

- Don't get carried away with the jack. Just enough to get out the old and get in the new, that's it. Ya don't have to raise it 3 ft. off the post. Half an inch is plenty usually.

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Jim P.

jproffer

You should assume that neither of them is going to fly at all....anyone with a brain (with or without trade skill/knowledge) can jack up a porch 1/2" and change a post. We're not talkin' brain surgery here.

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Jim P.

mikesewell

Sorry, I'm new at this. Do you have any more instructions for me on what to assume? What should I assume about Euler's column formula? What should I assume the porch weighs? What should I assume the length of the column is? What assumptions should I make about how well the porch is attached to the house? Should I assume that there aren't any other rotted structural members?

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Commercial construction

Sewell Construction

jproffer

What I MEANT by my original post was that since he is, in fact, in contractortalk and not diychatroom, we could assume that he is some sort of contractor (which were almost my exact words). SOOOOOOOOOOO....assuming that he IS some sort of contractor, this should be no problem.

Do I know what happens if he gets a full load on the T frame and it's not plumb? Yes obviously I do as I know you do also.

Should anyone who gives it about 2 seconds of thought realize this too? They should...maybe they won't, but they should. (see this is where the common sense part comes in)

We're not talking about jacking up a house. It's a porch for God's sake. It don't weigh that much.

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Jim P.

mikesewell

That's only one of the reasons why they should hire a qualified contractor. There is NO WAY that I would offer advice on this one without a site visit. There are just too many things that could go wrong.

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Commercial construction

Sewell Construction

jproffer

Zoso, screw jacks would be better (safer...less pieces to come apart), but a bottle and a T-frame would work too.

- Make sure to keep the T-frame in line with the jack (which is to say...as plumb as you can get it.) As was said, if it's off by much it could kick out.
- Have a helper. It's difficult (to say the least) to hold a brace plumb, operate the jack, watch the top of the post for clearance, etc. by yourself.
- Put the new post close to it's final resting place before removing the old one. Just a precaution which may be unnecesary, but ya never know. IF the jack would kick out, it would hold the roof enough to get the rig back under it and raise it up again. BTW, it won't come SHOOTING out even if it does kick out. If you were raising your whole house, then yes...a porch roof, no.
- Have everything in place before raising each section, so as to have as little "on the jack" time as possible.
- Any questions come back and ask before the job, not during.

Like I said, common sense. It's not rocket science but think it through. Every detail counts.

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Jim P.

mikesewell

The total absence of all of the most important information in the original question leads me to ASSUME that zoso should have someone more experienced ON THE SITE. This lead me to SAY that zoso should hire a qualified contractor. If it's an easy job, then it shouldn't cost much. If it is a dangerous or difficult job, then it's worth the money to hire a pro. I hire professional trade contractors every day, they are well worth the money.

Plumbing the temporary column is not the problem here. No matter how carefully it is plumbed, any flexure in the column what-so-ever will push it out of plumb. That is what Euler's column formula is all about. The column here is a two piece system with a hinge in it, that's not how we design columns. It is unstable by it's very nature. Once the column is out of plumb, it's too late, you have lost control of the situation, and your fate is out of your hands.

Also, one needs to look at the STABILITY OF THE ENTIRE SYSTEM (structure), not just the stability of one piece of falsework. The fact that no one has mentioned this is more than a little disconcerting.

IMHO, giving someone advice on a job like this without a site visit is poor judgement.

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Commercial construction

Sewell Construction

RobertCDF

Ok lets try to be really safe here. Build the post and put it on the jack and jack it up enough that the post stays but is not yet supporting any real weight. Then nail blocks on both sides of the post and to the beam you are jacking up. Then add 4 braces to the T post and nail them to something sturdy. Then put a 2x12 block on level ground next to the old post. Build another T post just a 1/2" longer then the distance from the beam to the 2x12 block. Then jack the beam up 1/2" add the other T post under the block and add 4 more braces nailed to something sturdy. Then remove old post and replace with new one. Then raise the jack 1/8" to take out other temp T post. Now lower jack and remove jacking T post. Move on to the next post and repeat. Start at the tallest post so you can just cut your T posts shorter. Now I would never go through this much trouble but just to make some people on this forum happy about saftey this should keep just about anything from happening. And by the way I am a professional contractor if you called me I would do exactly what I said in my first response.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
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jproffer

So am I....and so would I.

Noone I've ever met would go to all that trouble to lift a porch (and you wouldn't either I see)....I know I keep saying this, but others keep acting like it's not true...it's a porch roof, that's ALL.



Mike, try to forget about just this one thread for a second and try to think more generally about projects, homeowners, Diy'ers and the like. While I may agree that this particular OP may be a DIY'er, a lot of the time, people don't hire such jobs done because contractors get too self righteous to even bother with such a small job. OR, they tell Mr. and Mrs. Small Job, "I'll try to work it in as soon as I can", which means "When all my good paying jobs are done, I'll use you as filler until the next big job starts. I may get all of the posts changed or I may only get to one at a time, but you'll put up with it because I'm the only contractor out of 10 that has even said that I MIGHT get to it sometime." So Mr. and Mrs. Small Job get tired of waiting and come on a board such as this one and ask advice for the best way to get it done. So now, they've been down the "call a professional" road and it's a dead end. Do you think it's better to caution them as much as possible while still giving them the advice they need, or just bull up, say "hire a pro" and thats it? They have already tried to hire someone to no avail. They basically come on here saying "I've tried the pro thing, it didn't work, I'm GOING to do it myself with or without your help" Don't you think we have a responsibility to try to lead them in the right direction AND at the same time, warn against any possible dangers? I tend to think that of these two options:

1) Let them go off blindly into remodeling land and hope for the best

or

2) Let them take the many viewpoints they find on here, including yours, and make an INFORMED decision.

Option 2 is the better of them.

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Jim P.

RobertCDF

I think mike may be mad becuase this person may live in the same town and he wants to give them a $10,000 bid to replace 3 posts. So therefore does not want them to relized that it is an easy job. I bet mike would sugjest 1 crane for each post rig them all up have them hold it in place and replace the posts. BTW I have had posts slip out from under a jack a few times. The reason 1. I had not leveled the ground enough 2. the post was not plumb. But in these few times the jack always tipped while I was jacking. I have NEVER had one move once it was supporting anything.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

jproffer

Ditto. And it wasn't a "projectile" either (at least not the ones that were under the HUGE load of a porch roof ), it just...kinda....fell over, and since I had taken the precautions listed above, that's all that happened. The roof didn't cave in, if you can believe that. I kinda doubt that a porch roof would fall anyway, for several reasons.

1) There's just not enough weight there.
2) The rafters are tied to the wall of the house
and 3) There are usually 3 or more other posts that are still under it.

OK for the sake of Mike's nerves: Zoso, where do you live? If you're close I'll come by and do it. Two guys is $75/hour and it shouldn't take more than 2 hours, start to finish. I'll throw the first coat of paint on the new posts for nothin', whad'ya say?

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Jim P.

PipeGuy

It's really not. IMO, the fact that you have such a notion is really quite revealing.

jproffer

I'll agree there Pipe. This is indeed a contractors forum, but in-as-much as he was already here, I figured, what's the harm. (If you check his profile it says he is a fence contractor, btw)

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Jim P.

PipeGuy

There's an accident waiting to happen if I ever saw one. Let's all assume that only 'contractors' can get in here and ask questions.
How professional is it to offer 'how to' advice, site unseen, to someone who's posted here all of 10 times. Take the time to at least click your mouse a couple of times JP and look at zoso's history before you start making ASSumptions like that. If you do, I think you'll have a different take on the guy's skill level.

Not only that, the guy plainly noted that he's want to shore up a...

I think I smell the video for another Vonage commercial in the making.

6stringmason

woo woo..woo woo woo

Cole

The most important thing is too use common sense.

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jproffer

Which I believe I said right off the bat

Thanks Cole...and BTW, I just kinda got rubbed wrong...but if you honestly see reason to close it, then do so. I just don't, that's all.

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Jim P.

Cole

It stays open as long as all posts retain to helping him out with his questions.

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