Need Advice On Insulation Blowing

rj contracting

Hey Everyone,
My name is Jason I'm wanting to maybe start cellulose insulation blowing, Just on the side for now and see if it makes me any money, I recently did a shop for my neighbor cause he knew I've been thinking about this that was the only job i've done, and didn't think it was that bad. but the question is what and how do i charge? By the square foot, the job, the bag? I'm honestly really interested but just need some advice

InsulPro

Are you planning on blowing walls or attics.

rj contracting

Well for now im just going to blow attics but i would like to eventually start blowing walls as well.

rj contracting

Well for now im just going to blow attics but i would like to eventually blow walls. Im sorry if you get this twice but im new to the computer. Thanks

go dart

i don't know these deals can be scary. if your "doing it on the side" then theres no protection insurance wise for either you or the homeowner.
#1 you or a helper step thru a ceiling(easy 3000.00 repair)
#2 you or a helper get hurt steping thru that ceiling (here come the lawsuits aimed at the homeowner)
#3 insulate over a noninsulated light (call 911)
show some confidence and cowboy up. bet you could start up for 1500.00
include crawl spaces as well. once your insured charge whatever you want. you can rent all the eqpt. then you can offer an insurance certificate without waiting to be asked!

InsulPro

On attics we do it by the bag. Attics are where the money is at, Walls are
not as profitable.

Scoop

Very True!

Jason personally I find blow in side jobs to be hit or miss. I have done numerous one day jobs. Heres a list of hints I have come up with


Always Always Bring a few extra bags then you originally calculate. One of the worst problems i have occured is working all day and when im about 90% done The realizeation that Im gonna have to stop and get 3 more bags to finish. Now I have to stop run back to my shop just to get the extra bags making the day longer. (Really sucks when your far from home)

Make sure the owner and you are clear on what needs to be moved if applicable. Spending 2 hours moving furniture sucks.

Check power sources

Also make sure they understand thier might be some dust

List of tools I always carry
2 100ft cords
2 Clamp on lights (extra Bulbs)
hammer, Crow bar , screw drivers, Pilers,Knives, flash light
Drill with hole saw bit
Duct Tape
broom
Shovel
Trash Bags

I have prob forgot about 10 other things but I have always tried to plan for "Worst case senario"

Getting back to your original question I do square footage at R-30 value for attics As stated on the bags

Walls are a different animal all depends of the cavity of the wall is it balloned ETC

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DecksEtc

This advice pretty much pertains to any contracting business. I always order approx. 5% more material than I caclulate, 10% for fence boards. For me, it allows me to be selective with the wood I use and saves me making runs to the lumber yard for a couple of boards. The extra always gets used on a subsequent job that or bad boards are returned for credit towards the next job.

InsulPro

Also always go look at a job before telling the customer a price even if he just wants a guess. You would be suprised what people put in attics.
After I gave my first price over the phone I learned better.

rj contracting

I am planning on just renting the machine for a while just to see how everything goes. Do you guys mind if I ask what you charge?? it makes since to charge by the square foot or bag. an attic would take alot longer then a shop

rj contracting

couple other questions...... Is there certain codes as far as r-value, distance from lights? Any certain Brands you recomend?

InsulPro

As far as renting a machine, I would use the supplier's because you are not going to use it every day with the intentions of running a part time business. Our particular labor rate is about .20 cents a square foot. I dont blow
cellulose that often, but I do blow a lot of fiberglass insultation. The particular brand that I use is Guardian Attic Guard. When I do blow cellulose I just use a local brand. R value depends on climate, type of heat, (gas fuel, electric, and so on ) and location. I hope that this helps. Good luck!

Matt

firemike

Many places let you use their machine for little or nothing if you buy the insulation from them. As someone mentioned earlier, there are many things to consider, even with a part time business, such as licensing (many areas require you to be licensed for insualtion installation, some require permits and inspections to conform legally with local code) Then there is liability insurance, and workmans comp if you have helpers.
As Go Dart said, there are many "unexpected" things that can happen on a job, this forum has many horror stories posted. What would happen if you did fall through someone's ceiling? There goes your profit for this and the next (or last) several jobs. What if a helper slipped on a ladder and got injured?
Also as Go Dart said, you have top be REALLY CAREFUL of recessed light fixtures in attics. Some, especially older ones, are not rated for direct contact with insulation. Without adequate ventilation, they can overheat and cause a fire, and as a 20+ year firefighter, there is almost nothing worse than chasing an insulation fire in an attic. Because of the nature of celulose, it generally tends to smolder and work its way around like a burrowing mole instead of openly burning. Most fixtures require a minimum of 3" of clear air space around them, menaing you have to make/purchase baffles to keep the insulation away. Each manufacturer has their own requirements, so check them carefully. The ones you can directly bury in insullation should also be marked, but when in doubt...
You also have to be careful of closing up the attic ventilation air flow openings. Most houses have soffit vents that allow air to flow into the soffit space, through the trusses/rafters up the roof underside to the upper/ridge vents. You have to install chutes down by the wall/roof connection point to keep these airflow channels open, allowing the free flow of air to ventilate the attic space.
I am not trying to discourage you, only to encourage you to undertake this as a professional and potentially profitable business. Don't take the shortcuts that many of the "fly-by-nighters" take to make a quick buck and move on to a new gimmick. They are the sort that give true professionals a bad name and the main reason there is so much distrust against contractors. If you start your business and do right by your clients, over time you will build a good reputation and almost never be lacking in work. Get a solid network of clients, build a good relationship with suppliers and get referals from them as well. With insulation you won't get the "repeat" business as you would if you were a carpenter, painter, plumber, etc., but there is still the ever important referrals.
I get 75%-80% of my work from referrals by past clients, my wholesalers and suppliers, etc. And with the client referrals, many of the potential jobs I look at I end up being the only contractor asked to quote the project just because my previous client won't recommend anyone else. For me, a good recommendation from a previous client is worth more than any advertisement I could buy.
I do want to wish you good luck in your endevor and hope it works out for you. As much as being in business for yourself sucks sometimes, I wouldn't trade it for a 9 to 5 job. The benefits outweight the drawbacks! Good Luck!

Eric K

I just bought an older home, 110yrs old 3 story "farmhouse" type home, what are the ways I can insulate the walls without having to rip out the drywall, I only have to do this on the 1st floor as the top 2 have been gutted and reinsulated w/ r-19 i think. Do you knock out holes between the studs and blow in? I have been told doing this will cause alot of "blowback". What is the best technique?

firemike

An experienced insulation contractor can either do it from the inside or outside, depending on the the situation and your preference. Some use foam, most still use the celulose. Celulose is messy to do it from the inside, but if the home is not occupied, it is sometimes the best way to go.
- What I have done on a few jobs is pull the baseboard off and the contractor will drill a hole at the bottom right above the plate, and another hole at the top right under the top plate. He will blow the insulation in the walls, and when he is done, you plug the holes and either replace the base or put new base on, and for the top I plugged the holes and installed crown molding that covered them. You could also patch the holes and paint them in.
- The other option is to drill the holes from the outside, which is done quite often. The only problem is you will see the plugs they use to seal up the holes, unless you are planning to reside or can hide them with some trim molding. Sometimes you can get lucky and remove strategic pieces of siding and replace them after the insulation is done and no one will ever see them.
- One thing to check out first, many older houses were balloon framed, meaning that the wall stud cavities are generally open from the basement to the attic. Later on they were still balloon-framed, but they started installing fire blocking, which is just a piece of 2x material nailed horizontaly to close up the stud cavity to prevent the spread of fire between floors. Most fireblocking was installed 2 to 3 feet above floor level, at least here in the midwest area. They are a PITA for the insulation contractor. I saw a job once where the insulation contractor started blowing into a wall and after 2 bags it still wasn't full. Upon furthur investigation, they blew the 2 bags into the basement through the bottom of the wall, coating the area with a fine gray power, (kinda looked like the moon pictures from the Apollo landings.)

747

That kind of insulation is a remolding contractors worst nightmare. Just saying.

Eric K

I know I gutted a whole house that had that stuff in there.........What a mess.

firemike

747 and KBK,

I am a remodeling contractor too, and your right, it is our worst nightmare. I can't tell you the number of times I have been wading knee deep in celulose during a demo job.

Unfortunatly, you know how remodeling goes with some people. They don't know when to do certain projects. How many have you run into customers that want the painting done right after the new carpet is installed, or do a kitchen remodel after the new tile kitchen floor has been laid, and want to change the cabinet layout and expect you to match the floor tile. Then there is the ones that want a rewire after all the walls and floors are redone...

I hate blown in insulation, but sometimes you have no recourse but to use it.

mdshunk

Speaking of worst nightmares... here's one for you along the insulating line....

In my area, duplexes and other multifamily dwellings of a certain era has the entire stud cavities of common walls filled with this heavy black granulated stuff. Sort of looks like rice coal, but a little bit like slag too. I'm not sure what it is exactly, but it was installed to prevent transmission of fire from one unit to another around the 20's. It's worse than blown cellulose, in that if you cut one simple hole to install a device box, it pours out and empties the entire stud cavity. If you drill a hole up from below, in the basement, the entire stud cavity will empty through that hole like the sands of an hourglass. What a friggin mess. If anyone has any details on quite what this stuff is, I'd be interested to know more about it.

shopdust

I think that would be some kind of Perlite, a volcanic 'glass' type rock that is roasted and ground up. Have to lay the Mark I eyeball on it to be sure.