Do Architects Make More $ When They Screw Up?

Gus Dering

Does anyone know of an archy that paid for their mistake?

Seems to me that a goof on a print results in a phone call that the archy gets to bill for.

Sometimes followed by a job site meeting that bringsin the GC and any related subs. The only one getting paid at that meeting is the archy.

Usually followed by a plan to fix said boo boo that is always tough for the subs to get a change order from. If they do either the GC or the owner pays for it.

We all live in a world where we pay dearly for our own blunders. Am I in a distortion that the architects get to bill more money for the revision to their original snafu?

willworkforbeer

Same as DR's. Last year 1st surgeon looks at my shoulder and MRI, says cant be fixed, I can cut a bicep tendon to relieve strain. 2nd surgeon fixed it. 1st surgeon got paid for his time by insurance company, WTF??? He almost crippled me for life. I dont get paid like that.

J F

at least they have job security built right in...

world llc

my guys are by the hour
i assume IF they ever screwed up i would be charged by the hour...

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Gus Dering

I know that some forms of payment include a percentage of construction costs. That would seem to force them to the drafting table on their dime to revise a mistake. But what about the change order to rectify it ?

We could talk about all the disclaimers that are printed all over a set of plans pushing as much responsibility as possible to the GC and or related subs. But isn't that just coming right out and saying that they are not going to pay up for an oversight on their part?

This is not so much of a bitch session as it is a request for clarity. Can someone offer up some?

silvertree

I don't think the architects charge to redo a mistake, some might get away with it. My experience is they do tend to blame the builder until the builder proves he's right.
I was a PM for an architects group, they never talked to me until there was a problem, and bthen it was always someone else's fault until it was obvious to everyone it was an omission by the architect.
All my drawings always said "all measurements to be confirmed by the builder". That meant to me I had to catch the boo boo or it was my fault.

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ScipioAfricanus

Now that I think about it, no I don't remember an architect having to redraw and print new plans and having to pay for it themselves.

Damn, my mind is going in so many directions at once on this topic it difficult to come up with a salient point.

Maybe just to say that some mistakes are defensible like not knowing that a particular jurisdiction of a particular city has a differing setback code for a particular neighborhood. I have run into this myself and I usually end up doing the redraw for no extra charge and the HO or GC pick up the printing cost. Now I just add more into every job to cover this sort of contingency.

Andy.

bwalley

they shouldn't and depending on how big the screw up is, their Error's and Omissions insurance may have to pay to fix their screw up.

I have a job that the architect didn't make the stairwell long enough, it wasn't caught until AFTER it was built, I think we have found a way to make it work, otherwise it will be an expensive mistake for the architect.

bwalley

Wouldn't the setback be found when doing your Code search?

My architect missed the fact that our building had to have fire sprinklers in it because it has an Atrium, he tried to say it was a new code, but it wasn't.

He also missed some other issues I brought up with him that he should know about, I am just a dumb GC,A/C and Plumbing contractor, what do I know?

rbsremodeling

yes I do. 2.5 million was the final settlement amount by the architect and framer. I think it was a 80-20 split 80 on the architect. house was a 23 million dollar job

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Gus Dering

This is the kind of thing that we all have been a part of.
So you bump your head going down the stairs and someone figures that ain't right.
The clock starts ticking, You scratch your head and wonder if you framed it wrong. Tick tick.
Several guys join in the conversation, now you are having a meeting on your dime. tick,tick,tick
Finally decide to make a call to the archy and work has to dance around the issue or worse yet stop all together. Money flying out the window.
Leave a message and wait.
Get the call back and spend half hour convincing him or her that they have a problem.
Site meeting with all the players. I'm not getting paid for it.
Come up with a solution that requires rework.
Spend time figuring out the price for the change.
Spend time justifying the price for the change.
Meanwhile the rework is done so work can continue.
Settle for less because it just is not worth the fight.

Did the architect spend money or make money through all of that?
I'm sure it is not the same for all cases but what is the norm if you were playing the odds?

OW! My thumb

A GC friend of mine got busted on the final for an egress issue on a bedroom window, that had absolutely NO WAY on getting off the house anyway.(Specked out casement windows that dumped onto a roof that was 2 stories up. Failed by just a few inches). The arch submitted the plans to him and he got the stamp of approval from the city.
He ended up eating the new window and the install. The arch had no responsibility whatso ever. The lady whoes job it was told him HE shouldve known better.
Oh, and she was a nutty bitch too,...She wanted the kitchen cabs installed before the sheetrock was hung. I mean bare studs.I had to deal with her when I trimmed it out.
What about the arch? Shouldnt he have know also? And the inspector that approved the plans? What about them?
Anytime I get a set of arch drawings ( and thats what they really are,most of the time...drawings, not dimensional specific plans), I use my judgment and build them the way they need to be properly built.
Same goes with designers.
Ive had quite a few F'ed up designers so called "plans" before too.
Im over arguing with them.Been there , done that. I will charge to have to do modifications to them to meet code,if I have to. Im doing their job that theyve been paid for. And its my time to straighten out their bull****.The customer can bill back the arch or designer.

Gus Dering

I feel ya bro.

I'm still waiting for our new buddy Up North to weigh in so This thing can have some balance. We'll see

Chris Johnson

Hey Gus,

I can introduce you to architects who invoice so much to design the project and this amount covers reasonable changes by the owner and clarification items (Architects don't make mistakes).

and

I just finished a large project in St. Helena and the original budget for Architectural was $ 125k, finished @ 275k. $ 40k of that was justifyable to the owner as he requested additional work above and beyond the original scope from the Architect, the balance was just a general screwing as he invoiced for everything from us requesting proper information, showing him his mistakes and having to redraw and recalc them and the best one, everytime something was submitted to the owner for approval the Architect got a hold of it and wanted to approve it as well, all this cost the owner big bucks and he was pissed.

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Gus Dering

When you gonna come by and see us?

I'm out and about alot too, I could come see your current hovel

Chris Johnson

I'm on vacation next week to Palm Springs, will return and come by the following week, or if you are down around the Shamrock plant on Arnold Drive in Sonoma I am just finishing two buildings there.

I am at Nascar tomorrow, you got tickets? if so, PM me, I give you my cell #, we can do a beer or six

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greg24k

I never had had to pay extra if Architect screwed up, or if a plan was kicked back from a building department, in most cases the Architect had to submit a letter of the change which was attached to the print. Same goes in the field...If there is a problem, my carpenter and me will find a solution and if it a major issue I will have my Architect come to the site at his expense if there is a screw up on his part. If a client want changes done and it is something major, then there is extra cost.
I just had a small issue with my engineer when I was going for subdivision, he screwed up and had to make minor changes, so he did and sent me a bill for almost 2k. I didn't pay him, I told him it was mistake on his part, so he took me court and lost.
It is their job and they should do it right, HO have the same expectations from us, so why we should treat Architects or anyone else for that matter any different.

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Gus Dering

Thats good to hear, especially about the engineer.

But what about a case where rework was necessary on site to get the job back on course?

Have you ever seen the archy get back charged like any other sub?

genecarp

You are correct, they are not accountable for the mistakes they make (in most cases). They are experts at distancing themselves with the use of very small disclaimer notes like "TO BE VERIFIED IN THE FIELD". G

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greg24k

I never heard that an Architect was back charged, although in some cases they should be, because when I get the plan, I find lots of things wrong and they have to be corrected before I go for a building permit. If the plans are kicked back, and there is a major problem, by the time the Architect makes needed changes and by the time they review them again you can lose a week if you lucky, worst case scenario a month. Such delay can be costly, so the Architect should be responsible for something. Or if the town missed a major problem during plan reviews, and building inspector picks it up in the field or something is not working out, again you can lose allot of time and money.
That said, it brings us back to a popular topic... Contracts. So before anyone signs a retainer, have to read the clause and make sure that they fit your needs for the project and make small adjustments if needed.

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