Bastard Hip

 
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:42 AM   #1
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Bastard Hip


Need a little help on this one. Walls have already been built, the angled walls are 76" and the middle wall is 60". If you are wondering why they aren't equal sizes ask the home designer. I don't have much experience with this so maybe this is normal?

Took a shot at modelling the framing in sketchup. Thought about bringing each hip rafter up to the ridge, but i was worried about the overhangs not being on the same plane so this is the best i could come up with.

I gotta frame this thing tomorrow. Any ideas???
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:51 AM   #2
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Re: Bastard Hip


Yes, you need to bring the hips up from the corner points. You fascia level WILL be the same, but your overhang will most definitely change.

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Old 01-03-2012, 05:16 AM   #3
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Re: Bastard Hip


You can keep the fascia height and overhang the same, by manipulating the pitch and heel height or HAP.

The easiest way to do this is to snap the plan view out in full scale on the floor, complete with overhangs, sub fascias, ridge lines and walls.

This allows you to measure hip and rafter runs accurately. You'll also notice that the hips will be offset from the corners of the walls. This can be compensated for by adjusting the rafter dimensions to give the illusion that the hips land on the corners on the inside, if necessary for a vaulted ceiling.

Here's a few pics of the last one I framed with your conditions, although much more exaggerated.
Attached Thumbnails
Bastard Hip-001.jpg   Bastard Hip-050.jpg   Bastard Hip-027.jpg   Bastard Hip-015.jpg   Bastard Hip-040.jpg  

Bastard Hip-047.jpg  
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:19 AM   #4
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Re: Bastard Hip


In your renderings, the ridge is too long. It would have to cut back to a point from the front wall that is equal to half of the wide span of the wing walls, or common run of the main roof.

To give you an idea, extend the center rafter of the wing walls to the ridge, where the ridge and wing wall commons converge.
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Last edited by loneframer; 01-03-2012 at 05:25 AM.
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:57 AM   #5
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Re: Bastard Hip


My thoughts on it are that is not a very well thought out room/roof design. Not something I’d expect from anexperienced designer. (Looks wrong to me.)



It can be built as drawn, but the little gable will (or should) have zero overhang. The overhangs should be equal on all sides. The little gable should be nixed.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #6
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Re: Bastard Hip


Thanks for the comments guys. I agree after sleeping on it the little gable should be nixed. I'll try another version as you described Lone. Thanks.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:19 AM   #7
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Re: Bastard Hip


Name:  62281d1325589112t-bastard-hip-027.jpg
Views: 1021
Size:  56.9 KB


Lone, what kind of siding is that?
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:24 AM   #8
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
Originally Posted by jslusher View Post
Thanks for the comments guys. I agree after sleeping on it the little gable should be nixed. I'll try another version as you described Lone. Thanks.
I live 150 miles from you. Hi neighbor!
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:29 AM   #9
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Re: Bastard Hip


Can try something like this:
Attached Images
  
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:52 PM   #10
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Re: Bastard Hip


Actually, Lone is correct. You can get level fascia and even soffits by adjusting the HAP.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:33 PM   #11
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehtwo View Post
Attachment 62287


Lone, what kind of siding is that?
I believe that is Certainteed Cedar Impressions double 7, straight edge perfections.

http://www.certainteed.com/products/...siding/310282#
Attached Thumbnails
Bastard Hip-057.jpg   Bastard Hip-058.jpg   Bastard Hip-055.jpg  
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:57 PM   #12
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
I believe that is Certainteed Cedar Impressions double 7, straight edge perfections.

http://www.certainteed.com/products/...siding/310282#
Do you have any pictures of that?
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #13
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Re: Bastard Hip


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Do you have any pictures of that?
Might have a couple floating around...
Attached Thumbnails
Bastard Hip-003-11.jpg   Bastard Hip-010-2.jpg   Bastard Hip-020-1.jpg   Bastard Hip-018-1.jpg   Bastard Hip-093.jpg  

Bastard Hip-045-1.jpg  
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:17 PM   #14
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Re: Bastard Hip


Update: Won't be framing the hips until friday. About to start modeling and see what happens. I'll post pics when i'm done.

Quote:
You'll also notice that the hips will be offset from the corners of the walls. This can be compensated for by adjusting the rafter dimensions to give the illusion that the hips land on the corners on the inside, if necessary for a vaulted ceiling.
Not sure i understand what you mean. I understand about the hips being offset from the corners, but not the part about adjusting the rafter dimensions.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:24 PM   #15
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehtwo View Post
I live 150 miles from you. Hi neighbor!
Hey neighbor! Are you anywhere near the Oregon mountains?
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #16
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
Originally Posted by jslusher View Post
Update: Won't be framing the hips until friday. About to start modeling and see what happens. I'll post pics when i'm done.



Not sure i understand what you mean. I understand about the hips being offset from the corners, but not the part about adjusting the rafter dimensions.
It boils down to this. On the underside of the rafters, if you were to install drywall as is, your finished joint would land somewhere off the corner of the wall, just as the framing does. By manipulating the rafter dimension on one or more roof planes, you can get the drywall corner joint to match the joint on the ceiling, giving the illusion that the hip sits perfectly on the corner.

This is an advanced framing technique and not easy to pull off if you've never done it before. I've seen drywall guys double rock the offending plane to bring the joints in line before, which is what triggered my mind as to how it could be done in the framing stage.

In extreme cases, blocking may need to be added for sufficient nailing because manipulating the rafter dimensions will push the joint past the hip entirely.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:49 PM   #17
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
Originally Posted by jslusher View Post
Hey neighbor! Are you anywhere near the Oregon mountains?
I live between Alamogordo and Tularosa.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:57 PM   #18
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
It boils down to this. On the underside of the rafters, if you were to install drywall as is, your finished joint would land somewhere off the corner of the wall, just as the framing does. By manipulating the rafter dimension on one or more roof planes, you can get the drywall corner joint to match the joint on the ceiling, giving the illusion that the hip sits perfectly on the corner.

This is an advanced framing technique and not easy to pull off if you've never done it before. I've seen drywall guys double rock the offending plane to bring the joints in line before, which is what triggered my mind as to how it could be done in the framing stage.

In extreme cases, blocking may need to be added for sufficient nailing because manipulating the rafter dimensions will push the joint past the hip entirely.
One thing that I learned from a framer is that you should think about the other trades as you are framing. It makes you a better framer and you get more respected.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:43 PM   #19
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
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One thing that I learned from a framer is that you should think about the other trades as you are framing. It makes you a better framer and you get more respected.
I got into a bit of a spat with the owner of a plumbing company one time, because he was giving me a blast of crap about framers in general. That we're all inconsiderate POSs that don't think of anybody else.

I asked him at that point, if he would prefer that I stop laying out joists for tubs, toilets, showers, etc. Also, would he prefer I stop stacking the nails in the double plates so his guys wouldn't ruin auger after auger on nails.

He called me a liar, because nobody does that, at which point I asked the three plumber guys on the job if they ever hit nails in my frames.

Let's just say he found new respect for at least one lone framer.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:58 PM   #20
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Re: Bastard Hip


Quote:
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Let's just say he found new respect for at least one lone framer.


I remember way back in the day when I spun a thread. It was probably juvenile on my part. But to have a guy with a name that rhymes with Snikey bring it up years later. Tells my it struck a chord with him.

I may not be a framer anymore but I still have the heart.

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